Why do so many people hate on peek-a-boo style heavyweights?

"within the heavyweight DIVISION" You just pwned yourself! lol. No. U didnt understand my point. :D

The thing I always find silly is people say those old heavyweights couldn't fight now because the new heavys are too big ... well, look at James Toney. I think he's proof enough that having good boxing skills, a solid chin and an old school style can take you far in todays heavy-weight division. edit: corrected typo ... find = fight

Look at the first knockdown. It has been proven beyond a reasonable doubt that the punch did not land. And yet the guy goes down like a sack of potatoes? Hmmmmm. The sad thing is that when Svarease dropped his gard, Tyson could knock him cold. Tyson never had the LEVERAGE to knock a 6'5 (with decent weight) man out. Proven by whom? I watched the fight only 2 days ago. A punch landed but not cleanly. Tyrell Biggs was 6'5 and 229 Mike Jameson was 6'4 and 236 Frank Bruno 6'3 and 247 Ruddock 6'3 and 238 Tony Tubbs was 6'3 and 238 All big men and he stopped them all. Plus he was beaten by Holfield 6'2 and 218 Buster Douglas 6'3 231 Size although a factor, doesnt mean that much wen talking about skilled fighters.

I think you'll find there arent seperate divisions within the heavyweight division. I would choose a smaller faster big punching heavyweight with stamina to beat a much larger slower heavyweight with poor stamina. "within the heavyweight DIVISION" You just pwned yourself!

Why have seperate weight divisions then? I think you'll find there arent seperate divisions within the heavyweight division. I would choose a smaller faster big punching heavyweight with stamina to beat a much larger slower heavyweight with poor stamina.

I have to agree to an extent here. I mean just compare prime Lennox Lewis and prime Tyson or prime Dempsey and prime Tunney. When prime Tyson or Dempsey stepped into the ring, they were expected them to dominate, and generally the opponent was given very little chance. Now you look at guys like Tunney and Lewis, they didn't have that invincibility about them like Tyson/Dempsey, you always knew there was that chance that they could lose, which is probably why Lennox Lewis gets credit for beating up on past their primes Holyfield and Tyson, but Tyson doesn't get credit for beating a Larry Holmes who was much closer to his prime than either of them were, while doing it in much more impressive fashion. This goes with the point that people thought Mike Tyson was "Godzilla" even though he was 5'11, 220 and facing bigger guys...if you look back at his fights, taller guys that looked down at Mike were the ones that were showing fear. Lets not forget people, some of the best fighting dogs are American Pitbulls...I used to think because of their size the Great Dane would kick any dogs ass...the Romans used them, why couldn't they beat any dog...well, I got older, knew some people, and heard that the fights they may or may not have seen ;), saw the Pitbulls go right for the Great Danes throat, and they were out. If size were everything, the British would of kicked our ass...Napoleon wouldn't have been able to go as far as he did in Europe...the Mongolian Empire would have never been...Alexander the Great was highly out-numbered against the Persians and just about every other army he faced...lets also not forget about the 300 Spartans who held for many days fighting against incredible odds against the Persian force...many battles have been fought where the army that ended up winning were the army that was originally out-numbered. Allen Iverson wouldn't have been able to play in the NBA Barry Sanders should have been killed

The 6'5 guys he were fighting were as light as a feather. Saverease who, was not heavy, but was mediocore in the weight department, took a dive - so that does not count. So anybody that weighs 220 is "light as a feather"? What about Bruno and Ruddock? I think both Bruno and Ruddock weighed around 228lbs in the first fight...Ruddock weighed in the high 230s the second time, and not sure about Bruno, but he got bigger. What about Foreman? he was only weighing in the 220's in his first career...I guess he would get killed :rolleyes: So are you saying that if Shaq, at 7'3, 340lbs fought Tyson, Foreman, Liston, etc. that Shaq would win?

Tyson can beat big guys? Sorry, but he would be destroyed. Boxing is also about who can clinch well, and a man that small will get walked around the ring 10 times out of 10. Prime Tyson would not compete today. And you are going to argue about him beating Heavyweights of the future? In the future, the average heavyweight will be 300lbs and 6'5. But little mikey destroys them, right :rolleyes: Primo Carnera was bigger than everybody in his day and he got his ass kicked. Sam Langford was able to box with the heavyweights of his day and he was a welter/middle. Jameel McCline is huge, but was beat by little Chris Byrd. These guys may be bigger, but it seems with a lot of them once the body is pushed to a certain limit, it starts to hurt their speed, agility, and endurance...even guys like Valuev can't seem to punch as hard as someone smaller. Maybe as the years progress, with some type of new nutrition plan, evolution, drugs or whatever, humans can be bigger without it effected their overall performance. Big guys tend to die faster too

He didnt take a dive. The ref stopped the fight. Plus he was getting nailed with shots on the inside and couldnt control Tyson. Look at the first knockdown. It has been proven beyond a reasonable doubt that the punch did not land. And yet the guy goes down like a sack of potatoes? Hmmmmm. The sad thing is that when Svarease dropped his gard, Tyson could knock him cold. Tyson never had the LEVERAGE to knock a 6'5 (with decent weight) man out.

I didnt know it was about size. :rolleyes: Speed, timing, boxing ability. Tyson was very skilled in all 3. Why have seperate weight divisions then?

It's an old argument, but Tyson's skills were never the same after he left Rooney, though I still think he would of taken Douglas in the rematch if he came in decent shape like he did for Ruddock. You know, I have been thinking about a sort of weird analogy about Tyson, I think the reason that he was such a great fighter at that time was because he was part of a great system, sort of like the New England Patriots/Phoenix Suns of boxing. Now before I lose anyone on this analogy, if you are into basketball (being a fan of that sport will really help you understand the analogy), then you know the concensus best PG in the game is Steve Nash. A few years ago before he came to the great system in Phoenix, he was considered a good PG who was barely a top 10 PG in the league, but then after getting into the right system in Phoenix, he not only became the best, but also won the MVP of the whole league. I think that when Tyson was in the system that Cus set up, he was a great fighter, but after leaving the system he was just a very good fighter, but no longer a great one imo.

The only heavyweight champions who used the peek-a-boo style were Floyd Patterson and Mike Tyson. They were trained by Cus D'Amato who is reputed to have invented the peek-a-boo style. Jack Dempsey and Rocky Marciano both fought small although Dempsey was much more skillful than Marciano.

Id say maybe they (Tyson, Marciano, Dempsy) are victims of their own success. I have to agree to an extent here. I mean just compare prime Lennox Lewis and prime Tyson or prime Dempsey and prime Tunney. When prime Tyson or Dempsey stepped into the ring, they were expected them to dominate, and generally the opponent was given very little chance. Now you look at guys like Tunney and Lewis, they didn't have that invincibility about them like Tyson/Dempsey, you always knew there was that chance that they could lose, which is probably why Lennox Lewis gets credit for beating up on past their primes Holyfield and Tyson, but Tyson doesn't get credit for beating a Larry Holmes who was much closer to his prime than either of them were, while doing it in much more impressive fashion.

George was burnt out...he couldn't get a rematch with Ali and he was being driven crazy by feeling insecure, or so they say...the best thing for a fighter like Foreman would have been able to get that rematch with Ali as soon as possible, that would of probably saved him, but not having that chance to redeem himself was slowly killing him. He couldn't concentrate on any other fighter than Ali and that is why he appeared unfocused for the other fights after the loss. The same could be said of Tyson who admitted that he lost interest in fighting after he lost to Buster Douglas, however that was beside my point. I am not criticizing George, I am actually a Foreman fan to be honest, but I am just pointing out that they don't recieve as much criticism as the smaller guys do, despite these fighters showing such dominance during their era.

The 6'5 guys he were fighting were as light as a feather. Saverease who, was not heavy, but was mediocore in the weight department, took a dive - so that does not count. He didnt take a dive. The ref stopped the fight. Plus he was getting nailed with shots on the inside and couldnt control Tyson.

Tyson can beat big guys? Sorry, but he would be destroyed. Boxing is also about who can clinch well, and a man that small will get walked around the ring 10 times out of 10. Prime Tyson would not compete today. And you are going to argue about him beating Heavyweights of the future? In the future, the average heavyweight will be 300lbs and 6'5. But little mikey destroys them, right :rolleyes: I didnt know it was about size. :rolleyes: Speed, timing, boxing ability. Tyson was very skilled in all 3.

tyson barely fought a smaller guy and he was knocking out 6'5 guys all over the place but your right little mikey couldn't fight todays heavies! The 6'5 guys he were fighting were as light as a feather. Saverease who, was not heavy, but was mediocore in the weight department, took a dive - so that does not count.

Tyson can beat big guys? Sorry, but he would be destroyed. Boxing is also about who can clinch well, and a man that small will get walked around the ring 10 times out of 10. Prime Tyson would not compete today. And you are going to argue about him beating Heavyweights of the future? In the future, the average heavyweight will be 300lbs and 6'5. But little mikey destroys them, right :rolleyes: tyson barely fought a smaller guy and he was knocking out 6'5 guys all over the place but your right little mikey couldn't fight todays heavies!

Tyson can beat big guys? Sorry, but he would be destroyed. Boxing is also about who can clinch well, and a man that small will get walked around the ring 10 times out of 10. Prime Tyson would not compete today. And you are going to argue about him beating Heavyweights of the future? In the future, the average heavyweight will be 300lbs and 6'5. But little mikey destroys them, right :rolleyes:

Not all Tyson's fault: Tyson wanted the rematch with Douglas but Douglas wanted 20+ million, and King said "NO"...Tyson supposedly told King he didn't care about the money, but King said forget it. I think Douglas ended up getting 25 million for fighting Holyfield. It's an old argument, but Tyson's skills were never the same after he left Rooney, though I still think he would of taken Douglas in the rematch if he came in decent shape like he did for Ruddock. For Holyfield, Mike probably had a better chance at beating him before he went to prison... at least he still used some body punching,which I always felt Evander had some problems with taken, and some timing left...Tyson did hurt Evander in their fight to the body, but he didn't follow up with body punches...Rooney made sure Tyson would combo up that body on up to the head. You have to fight Evander to the body, not the head. For Lewis, he got tougher to fight when Emanuel took over...Lewis had a lethal uppercut so he had a weapon that could hurt Tyson...add the height, intelligence, patience, it could be some trouble for prime Tyson. I never bought into Lewis's stamina though: most big guys tend to have stamina issues when having to fight at a faster pace...Lewis was just so great at using the jab he could dictate the pace, except for the Vitali fight, but his stamina may have looked bad more from age than fast pace fighting. Lewis still didn't have a Foreman like chin, though it isn't as bad as people make it out to be...both shots that knocked him out were big, solid, punches right on the chin. Yea i agree. Tyson was famous for those body shots. In the first Holyfield fight the only round i scored for Tyson was the 5th. Where he landed a few combinations, most notably his famous right to the body and uppercut. And yesterday i watched the rematch, wen Tyson bit Holyfield the 2nd time, Holyfield was pissed off and came at Tyson. Tyson waved him on and without hesitation threw a great right to the body. Shame he didnt do that from round 1.