Well, there's no Tyson because he's a heavyweight and the Pound-4-pound concept was created specifically for non-heavies. That's not to say a heavyweight can't be on a p4p list; but I find it difficult to do so.
There's no Duran because he started out in the 1960's and by the time the 1980's came around he was sporatic with his great performances.
There is a Hagler on the list.
There's no Hearns because I didn't think he made the Top 10.
Oh and Leonard, I do believe, was the best p4p fighter we've seen since 1980.
very true he had lighting speed and power all the way up to 160.
HW's should not be in p4p lists unless they started out at a lower weight.
well yeah thats true. but i also think it should be considered if they can do things that lower weight class can do and the average heavyweight cant do. ya get me
How do you have Micheal Spinks on there and not Tyson, no duran, hagler or hearns, this is no where near perfect and if you put SRL as number 1 youve destroyed your entire list there! Well its your opinion so whatever, but this is no where near PERFACT, see no where near PERFACT (perfect) ;)
Well, there's no Tyson because he's a heavyweight and the Pound-4-pound concept was created specifically for non-heavies. That's not to say a heavyweight can't be on a p4p list; but I find it difficult to do so.
There's no Duran because he started out in the 1960's and by the time the 1980's came around he was sporatic with his great performances.
There is a Hagler on the list.
There's no Hearns because I didn't think he made the Top 10.
Oh and Leonard, I do believe, was the best p4p fighter we've seen since 1980.
Actually, I might put McCallum ahead of Jones.
I know it was the end of his career, but simply the way ROy beat him makes it difficult for me at least, to put him above Roy.
i still think tyson should be number 1. dude had welterweight handspeed,middleweight footspeed and his power is above most heavyweights ever. :eek:
You do make a good point concerning Tyson; but I have a tendency to be extremely tough on heavyweights when it comes to p4p lists. The phrase pound-for-pound was created specifically for non-heavyweights to ascertain their overall worth. So, for me, putting a heavyweight at the top of the list is equivalent to a camel fitting through the eye of a needle. However, Tyson was talented enought that that argument could be made for him, just as it could be made for Ali.
i still think tyson should be number 1. dude had welterweight handspeed,middleweight footspeed and his power is above most heavyweights ever. :eek:
HW's should not be in p4p lists unless they started out at a lower weight.
A near perfect list, although I would have put Chavez up a few notches.
You know...you're right. Whitaker and Chavez should go above Pryor. Thanks for pointing that out.
1) Floyd Mayweather
2) Pernell Whitaker
3) Roy Jones
4) Mike McCallum
5) James Toney
6) Michael Nunn
7) Roberto Duran
8) Ray Leonard
9) Mike Tyson
10) Julio Cesar Chavez
11) Thomas Hearns
12) Marvin Hagler
13) Naseem Hamed
14) Kostya Tszyu
15) Michael Spinks
16) Oscar De La Hoya
17) Felix Trinidad
18) Joe Calzaghe
19) Ricardo Lopez
20) Gerald McClellan
Wow, JuyJuy, i actully think you have a pretty damn good list.
This is dificult considering p4p is such a hard term to use when discussing some people who didn't fluctuate weight classes, or long careers. It's also dificult considering I can't determine whether to use fighters who fought into the 80's or started/peaked in the 80's.
In no order:
Hopkins
RJJ
Mayweather Jr
Tszyu
Hagler
Ray Leanord
Pryor
Lewis
Pacqiao
Toney
Holyfield
Holmes
Duran
ODLH
Hearns
Whitaker
MAB
Nelson
Benitez
JCC
I think that's 20, but I'm too lazy to count.
tyson
leonard
hagler
lewis
holyfield
duran
hearns
sanchez
chavez
delahoya
trinidad
jones
toney
pryor
mayweather
hopkins
taylor
pacquiao
morales
barrera
I think it would be wise to learn about how the original pound for pound list was created before you post.
1 Hagler
2 Leonard
3 Whitaker
4 Chavez
5 De La Hoya
6 Hearns
7 Roy Jones
8 Ricardo Lopez
9 Nelson
10 Holyfield
11 Duran
12 Pryor
13 Tyson
14 Trinidad
15 Barrera
16 Toney
17 Arguello
18 Spinks
19 Holmes
20 Nunn
opps I left out Hopkins, he should be top 15 no doubt and Larry Holmes should be higher.
Duran
Hagler
Floyd Mayweather Jr
Suger Ray
Tyson
Oscar De La Hayo
Corrales
Castillo
Lennex
Shane Mosely
Vinny Paz
Pennral Whitaker
Hearn
Nigel Benn
Chris Eubank
McClanne
Erik Morales
B Hopkins
Nassem Hamed
Kassim Ouma
if we were adding active fighters or fighters who still have life left i would have put morales and barrera in there...replacing my last two on the list and mixing up a few spots there. Morales would be in the 8-14 range...barrera in the 15-20 range.
I am counting stuff from the 70s if the fighter fought in the 80s too
in no particular order
hagler
jones jr
spinks
whitaker
duran
leonard
nelson
sanchez
arguello
gomez
chavez
toney
hopkins
holyfield (not the best HW, but the best HW p4p)
I am not completely sure of the following cos I am afraid I might be forgetting someone who's better
zoo
mccallum
lewis
de la hoya
hearns
tito
eubank
mayweather jr
Roberto Duran
Evander Holyfield
Marvin Hagler
Lennox Lewis
Sugar Ray Leonard
Floyd Mayweather
Bernard Hopkins
Roy Jones Jr.
Felix Trinidad
Johnny Tapia
JC Chavez
Pernell Whitaker
James Toney
Ricardo Lopez
Erik Morales
Marco Antonio Barrera
Daniel Zaragoza
Azumah Nelson
Mike Tyson
Jose Luis Castillo
There is simply no way you can rank Bhop or Floyd above roy at this point. Also, Pernell was the number 1 p4p for much of the 90's. He should be much higher on the list.
How do you have Micheal Spinks on there and not Tyson, no duran, hagler or hearns, this is no where near perfect and if you put SRL as number 1 youve destroyed your entire list there! Well its your opinion so whatever, but this is no where near PERFACT, see no where near PERFACT (perfect) ;)
dude michael spinks is one of the greatest lhw of all time (beating everyone in what was probably the best generation of 175ers ever)
say dude, thats a nice list except Tito & Chavez have got to replace Sugar L & Holy.
are you actually suggesting that tito is a better fighter than ray leonard?
Roberto Duran
Evander Holyfield
Marvin Hagler
Lennox Lewis
Sugar Ray Leonard
Floyd Mayweather
Bernard Hopkins
Roy Jones Jr.
Felix Trinidad
Johnny Tapia
JC Chavez
Pernell Whitaker
James Toney
Ricardo Lopez
Erik Morales
Marco Antonio Barrera
Daniel Zaragoza
Azumah Nelson
Mike Tyson
Jose Luis Castillo
re PBF34:
yes, i am aware of the p4p system. it started with benny leonard - who didn't move up in weight but did beat larger man.
re oldgringo:
fair enough, i was just stating my opinion.
i don't rate whitaker top 10-12 p4p, rather around 20-25 but i won't argue. he was a great fighter who always fought on his own terms - so it's very tough to root against him, especially in these mythical matchups. i would give him the benefit of the doubt against most welterweights, but not all. like ive said, the old timers of the past were just so authentically tough unlike the coddled guys of today.
it also seems the fighters you listed up top we could list as some of the 'greats' of the 80s and 90s and beyond seem to me to be the premier ATHLETES of the era in boxing - Whitaker, Leonard, Hearns, Jones, Pryor, DLH etc. all these men basically purveyed their trade with massive physical advantages (possibly in a couple of cases artificially induced but thats another story) which often led to them seeming head and shoulders above their contemporaries.
for me, at least, i almost always include arguello, duran, chavez, lopez near the top because they represented the lost arts of boxing (nowadays). feinting/bodypunching.
But once again like I said, if I could consider accomplishments in any part of the 70's, guys like Arguello and Benitez would move up. Arguello was one of the most lethal, precise punchers I've ever seen in a ring. After the 80's, he beat Boza Edwards, Navarette, Mancini, and Ramirez....but I can't really remember him doing anythign else besides the unbelievably close loss to Mr. Pryor.
I love technitians like him and McCallum. They perfect their craft and turn that into pain for their opponents.