oldgringo thoughts on Hopkins/Taylor

I finally saw it, probably could have went either way but I would give it to Hopkins because I don't think Taylor did enough to deserve the win. Maybe a draw would have been the right decision...

Old thread and probably dead subject, but I finally saw the fight last night. The word robbery doesn't fit here. I actually scored the fight 115-113 for Hopkins, but understand how someone could score it for Taylor. Some very close rounds in the middle of the fight. Hopkins didn't do himself any favors with his punch output early. It seemed to me he waited too long to start his assault. I thought his game plan was solid with the right counter and had Taylor guessing there. I can't figure out why he didn't get going earlier. His pace was perfect for a fifteen round fight, but unfortunately those have gone the way of the do-do bird. To Taylor's credit, he fought well and I was impressed. He did what he had to do against Hopkins and came out fast. Thought he got too tentative late. Hopkins counter right and his defensive ability gave Taylor trouble. Overall not an exciting fight, but a fun one to watch. I will look forward to the rematch. The second fight will be better becuase Hopkins knows now he can't play his waiting game against Taylor and will come out fighting earlier next time. But then again, can an old dog learn new tricks? good stuff

I wish I had been a member of this site back then (During Jones Tarver 2) I won 400 dollars betting all my friends so I definitely was not saying jones got old overnight. I also am not saying hopkins got old overnight either. What I am saying is that while still talented. The 40 year old hopkins does not have the same punching power, speed, endurance, dexterity, and toughness as a younger hopkins. (In no way shape or form am I saying he got old overnight.) what I am saying is that if he were a few years younger he would have been able to capitalize on more of Jermains mistakes. if you have ever competed in any sport and you start to age your reflexes, healing ability etc slow down. In Hopkins case he has been able to stave it off for a long period yet he is still aging. there is a difference in saying one got old overnight and one is old. One who gets old overnight simply loses something in one fight or seemingly ages from one fight going into the next. Hopkins did not age overnight he simply has been slowly getting slower and weaker over time. Its inevitable and is a part of life. I never said Tszyu got old either. (If you see where I said that in this post please inform me because maybe I cannot read or something.) I said that Hatton's John Ruiz style tactics helped him to win the fight along with his agressiveness. (my point in that was that in another place other than Europe he would have been warned or disqaulified for holding etc.) Also boxing like figure skating is a young persons sport. In boxing between 32 and 35 and that is it. Anything beyond that and you are either an anomoly, very stupid, or you have done something remarkable. either way age definitely takes its toll. So if Bernard is not old what do you consider old for a boxer 95? cause if that is so maybe my grandpa should consider returning. I see your point..I was pointing out that so many had said all this crap before the fight, then changed their tune when nard lost. I actually agree with you about hatton....he would have been dq'ed here in the states and should have been regardless of where he was fighting tszyu.

it bugs me to hell and back that some are saying its cause nard is an old man now. For weeks before the fight, taylor fans had to put up with an enormous amount of posts claiming that nard would school taylor, hurt taylor, murder taylor, blah blah blah. Now that taylor won, all of a sudden none of that ever was said and nard is just old. The same exact thing happened when tarver beat jones...up unitl the rematch jones was gonna KILL tarver, then when jones was ko'ed, he just got old, OVER NIGHT!! Honestly, in both cases, I think the guys particular style and aggressiveness won the fight..not old age on the other guy. To say that theyre just 'old' is having it both ways. I wish I had been a member of this site back then (During Jones Tarver 2) I won 400 dollars betting all my friends so I definitely was not saying jones got old overnight. I also am not saying hopkins got old overnight either. What I am saying is that while still talented. The 40 year old hopkins does not have the same punching power, speed, endurance, dexterity, and toughness as a younger hopkins. (In no way shape or form am I saying he got old overnight.) what I am saying is that if he were a few years younger he would have been able to capitalize on more of Jermains mistakes. if you have ever competed in any sport and you start to age your reflexes, healing ability etc slow down. In Hopkins case he has been able to stave it off for a long period yet he is still aging. there is a difference in saying one got old overnight and one is old. One who gets old overnight simply loses something in one fight or seemingly ages from one fight going into the next. Hopkins did not age overnight he simply has been slowly getting slower and weaker over time. Its inevitable and is a part of life. I never said Tszyu got old either. (If you see where I said that in this post please inform me because maybe I cannot read or something.) I said that Hatton's John Ruiz style tactics helped him to win the fight along with his agressiveness. (my point in that was that in another place other than Europe he would have been warned or disqaulified for holding etc.) Also boxing like figure skating is a young persons sport. In boxing between 32 and 35 and that is it. Anything beyond that and you are either an anomoly, very stupid, or you have done something remarkable. either way age definitely takes its toll. So if Bernard is not old what do you consider old for a boxer 95? cause if that is so maybe my grandpa should consider returning.

This being the case why does John Ruiz continue to have the belt? and secondly if this were true Tszyu would still be champ and Hatton would have been Disqaulified. Hopkins and Taylor was definitely close but Taylor missed a lot of shots. He is very lucky hopkins is not a few years younger, that wide looping right hand would have gotten him destroyed. He needs to learn to throw that right hand in close and tight every time. Hopkins is an old man now so he couldnt capitalize on Taylors sloppy right hand. it was very close and Taylor has the belts and was the victor but the scoring definitely could have gone the other way. I also had the fight scored for hopkins but Taylor has the belts so hats off to him. it bugs me to hell and back that some are saying its cause nard is an old man now. For weeks before the fight, taylor fans had to put up with an enormous amount of posts claiming that nard would school taylor, hurt taylor, murder taylor, blah blah blah. Now that taylor won, all of a sudden none of that ever was said and nard is just old. The same exact thing happened when tarver beat jones...up unitl the rematch jones was gonna KILL tarver, then when jones was ko'ed, he just got old, OVER NIGHT!! Honestly, in both cases, I think the guys particular style and aggressiveness won the fight..not old age on the other guy. To say that theyre just 'old' is having it both ways.

Idiot, everyone knows that you can hold & hit in boxing, that shit is a foul. This is not a street fight, yea in a street fight you can do anything you like. This is boxing, get a clue. This being the case why does John Ruiz continue to have the belt? and secondly if this were true Tszyu would still be champ and Hatton would have been Disqaulified. Hopkins and Taylor was definitely close but Taylor missed a lot of shots. He is very lucky hopkins is not a few years younger, that wide looping right hand would have gotten him destroyed. He needs to learn to throw that right hand in close and tight every time. Hopkins is an old man now so he couldnt capitalize on Taylors sloppy right hand. it was very close and Taylor has the belts and was the victor but the scoring definitely could have gone the other way. I also had the fight scored for hopkins but Taylor has the belts so hats off to him.

u cant win a fight by throwing 3 punches a round..and thats what hopkins did...he lost the first 7 or 8 rounds..u guys all suck at judgeing fights..i remeber ppl were saying jirov beat mesi? when he got his ass kicked every round but the last 2

OG I got somethin to make you feel better...... http://img333.imageshack.us/img333/9596/896582rj.jpg LMAO! Damn you Borikua. Bringing back old demons :(

Félix Trinidad lost to Winky Wright.

yo i still havent seen the fight but evry 1 said hopkins was robed 4 his titles read some more...far from 'everyone' thinks that.

It doesn't have to do with excitement, or else round 2 would have gone for 10-8 Taylor because Hopkins stumbled when hit on the top of the head. I'm suggesting that relative to the other rounds it was a huge one. He had Taylor visibly holding on for dear life and landed shot after shot. but nard didnt knock him down (which would be an automatic 10-8) and he didnt dominate him so completely as to warrant a 10-8 rd. The only reason I give a 10-8 without a kd is when the other fighter dominates so severly that he makes the other guy look almost silly. 10-8 rounds are to be EARNED, otherwise its just a 10-9. In my opinion anyway.

That shows how much you really know. You are counting all the dirty fouls for Hopkins. Go lick his balls now. OH GREAT, you really do know a lot hitting while infighting is a foul are you serious? did you watch too many olympics bouts and think that only punches from the outside exist? are you still doing out-fighting drills (or whatever you say in english) and wondering what to do with your arms if someone gets close to you? before answering make sure you spit out some of jermaine taylor's, no one wants the screen to be all yucky

yo i still havent seen the fight but evry 1 said hopkins was robed 4 his titles Then I'm glad you felt like throwing your non-existant opinion into the discussion.

yo i still havent seen the fight but evry 1 said hopkins was robed 4 his titles

You dont give 10-8 rds just cause one rd. was a little more exciting than the rest. Thats the same as giving a guy a rd. cause he did a little better in that rd. than he did in the previous rds. It doesn't have to do with excitement, or else round 2 would have gone for 10-8 Taylor because Hopkins stumbled when hit on the top of the head. I'm suggesting that relative to the other rounds it was a huge one. He had Taylor visibly holding on for dear life and landed shot after shot.

I am in agreeance with you Gringo however remember that you have to take a champions title not draw or just make it. Jermaine did well but not well enough in my opinion for the title to change hands. However he gest props for winning. but the rematch should prove to be different.

Nice take on the fight, gringo, I had Taylor winning but like you said a draw or a 115-113 win either way is fine. Even though I think the robbery comments people are making are dumb I am actually glad to see so many Hopkins fans around. With the haters usually being so loud I was starting to think his fan base was actually quite small. Whenever we do one of those favourite fighters threads here Hopkins is always in my #1 spot so I am a huge fan of his even though I didn't think he won on this night. Anyway, no need to feel too bad for Bernard. Remember, after this fight he was going to go up to light heavy so his winning streak would have still ended. It just would have been 21 instead of 20...no big difference, really. And once he retires his legend will grow even more, I think. Actually this loss probably won him more fans and support, like what happened with Dempsey after the losses to Tunney.

One of the things I've been trying to determine is whether or not I can give Hopkins a 10-8 round in the 10th. Now, in most fights that round would simply be a 10-9, but relative to all other 11 rounds that one was explosive. Landing 15 power punches, which was the total number landed by Taylor the first 4 rounnds... any thoughts? You dont give 10-8 rds just cause one rd. was a little more exciting than the rest. Thats the same as giving a guy a rd. cause he did a little better in that rd. than he did in the previous rds. OG. I only disagree with rd. 3 & 9 of your card....glad a SEVERE hopkins fan can be objective, and glad you also dont think that the term "robbery" is fitting! ;)

after seeing the fight a 2nd time, I am getting convinced that hop got robbed. everytime he hit on clinches or while infighting were seldom noticed by the HBO crew, except roy jones. sometimes he hit taylor with 4 or 5 punches to the head in a row, in the early rounds and no one noticed. instead, they went wild with the crowd everytime taylor shot a right on hopkins gloves. this was a close fight. but with no audio on, there is no way I could have taylor winning, hopkins 115-113, a draw, anything, but not taylor winning. a footnote hopkins holding and hitting was disgusting and perfect, I don't think there has been a great fighter so scientifically dirty since roberto duran, I hate dirty fighters usually but these two made an art out of it (like duran's low blows...)

Hey Gringo, I have held off on commenting on the fight but just watched it again and wanted to throw my two cents at you. First I agree with you post on alot of points, mostly becuase I had the EXACT SAME SCORECARD, but I should have expected great things from somebody with Kweli in their sig. Anyway, here are a collection of my thoughts. --Alot of the rounds that HBO said Taylor was wiping out in the first half of the fight were certainly very close. That being said, I thought it pretty clear that Hopkins took rounds three and rounds five. HBO agreed that Hop took round five and Roy Jones seemed to think that he took round four as well. I think it is pretty crazy that Hop did not get two of those rounds somewhere in those first eight on all cards. --That being said, even if that is the case then Hopkins would have gotten the draw and kept his belts but would not have won the fight on my cards. BEST CASE SCENARIO for supporters of Hopkins is that he took three four and five, and thus should have eaked out a close decision, but I really feel like giving four to the executioner would have been a reach. --I think even the most loyal of Hopkins fans would admit that he probably started a round or two too late. Did he start at a point in which maybe he should have kept his belts via the draw, sure I think so. But it is SHOCKING to me that at this stage Hopkins would even let it be that close when I think that he had control otherwise. --Taylor's early gameplan was not that bad even though he tired out late. He did exactly what I thought he had to do at the start of the fight and that is to try and pressure Hopkins. However, if he wants to win the rematch he is going to have to be more effective or he will miss alot, get countered, and fade at the end once again. One thing I did not like about what Taylor did was he seemed a little formuliac, and that made him easier to counter then he should have been. For the first six rounds of the fight you knew what was going to happen when Taylor stepped in, it was either 'jab, jab', or 'jab, jab, right'. It was pretty rare that he led with a powershot or mixed in the left hook into his exchanges. --BOTH FIGHTERS did alot of things right in this fight, and that is probably why it is so easy to see a draw. Hopkins was able to save his energy and surge late like he wanted, Taylor was able to win the early part of the fight by outworking Hopkins like he wanted. In a rematch it is going to be the fighter that is able to do more then that who will win. --It was really tough for me to sit through alot of the HBO stuff. I am not a Hopkins fan really, but have alot of respect for what he has done. Usually I would be annoyed with how pro-Hopkins Roy Jones was throughout the fight, however it was tolerable in light of how anti-Hopkins everybody else was! --In the post fight interview I was really impessed with how polite and humble Jermain Taylor was (as he always is). Hopkins had a grace and class that he ruled the division with, it is good to know that even if Hopkins wins in the rematch there is somebody who will rule the division with a grace and class of their own (even if it is of a very different sort) in the post-Hopkins era (as I expect Taylor will do regardless of what happens in the rematch). Lou DiBella was a complete sleaze-bag throughout the entire process though, and it is too bad that Taylor involves himself with such a jerk. I wanted to punch him in the post-fight when he said that a chapter in his life was over, he did not do a damn thing, this was about Hopkins and Taylor NOT DiBella and Hopkins no matter what anybody says. DiBella needs to get over himself. --I almost felt like crying when I saw Hopkins face as the decision was announced. It was like somebody just punched him in the stomach, he says "and still" only to hear Buffer say "and new" a split second later. I thought it should have been a draw, but I would have rather seen the benefit of the doubt go to Hopkins then Jermain just because this is Hopkins swan song. Jermain will have years and years to win and defend his belts, Hopkins no longer has that luxury. But as long as Hopkins is OK with what went down inside himself, then all is good. If he really means what he said to Larry, if he thinks he won and that is good enough for him, then I think that is all that matters and Executioner fan's should take comfort in that. As Hopkins said just before they cut Larry's mic to go to Roy and Jim- 'fuck 'em'. Disgruntled Hopkins fans should relax and take the same attitude. --See everybody at the rematch.