toney doing what roy jones did

You forgot to add, - "In my opinion" No he didn't. It's idiotic to put, "in my opinion," after everything you write, because it's quite clearly the writer's opinion. After all, who else's would it be? Everyone knows it just his opinion, therefore, saying is only stating the obvious, and is completely unneccesary, and redundant. If you research it again, I think you'll find that SRR weighed in at 134 1/2lbs at the beginning of his career - That's the lightweight division he's fighting in! I've looked at several sites (googled), and the lowest recorded weight I can find is 141. If he fought any fights at LW, then it was very few. His very first fight was fought at 141. I don't know anything about Wittier, so I can't comment on that. But Bernard had 1 fight at light heavy, and it was his first fight as a pro. You can hardly count that as being a light heavyweight.

Can you please post it when you get a chance...I'd like to see it.

Don't forget the Tiberi gift Toney got. I heard that was a robbery by alot of people, does anyone have that fight? I've got it. A typical American decision. :thumbsdow

Jones lost by KO to good opponents and after Roy lost massive muscle mass and was flat, weak, and old. This was apparent to eveyone who has seen Roy in his prime. The only way Toney's legacy can be better is if he beats the Ruiz AND 2 other recognizeable heavyweights, so I agree in that regard. I don't think he could beat Vitali though and I'm not sure he canbeat Ruiz either. Jones lost by KO in his last fights as a pro, whereas Jones schooled Toney when they were both young and Toney lost to an unknown named Thadzi just by getting outworked. If Toney cannot beat Ruiz, Toney is going to get owned verbally in smacktalk by many people... Don't forget the Tiberi gift Toney got. I heard that was a robbery by alot of people, does anyone have that fight?

So I guess that means that you haven't seen the fight.

hmm Toney has never lost by KO or ever even been seriously hurt in the ring. The only time he was ever knocked down was by Jones and he was not even hurt he was just clowning and got off balance while clowning which made him look really stupid. Jones lost by KO to good opponents and after Roy lost massive muscle mass and was flat, weak, and old. This was apparent to eveyone who has seen Roy in his prime. The only way Toney's legacy can be better is if he beats the Ruiz AND 2 other recognizeable heavyweights, so I agree in that regard. I don't think he could beat Vitali though and I'm not sure he canbeat Ruiz either. Jones lost by KO in his last fights as a pro, whereas Jones schooled Toney when they were both young and Toney lost to an unknown named Thadzi just by getting outworked. If Toney cannot beat Ruiz, Toney is going to get owned verbally in smacktalk by many people...

If Toney wins against Ruiz and wins a couple other fights at heavyweight, he might leave a bigger legacy than Jones, even though Jones beat him, Thadzi beat him, and Griffin beat Toney twice, Toney has never lost by KO or ever even been seriously hurt in the ring. The only time he was ever knocked down was by Jones and he was not even hurt he was just clowning and got off balance while clowning which made him look really stupid.

If you look at Toney's and Jones' careers, there are many similarities, both started at much lighter weights, around middleweight, and are now challenging for heavyweight title, against the same guy! Why isn't there such a big deal being made about Toney? would he be one of the P4P greats if he beat Ruiz? Judging by what (comparitively) little hype there is about this fight, even if Ruiz got knocked out, I don't think Toney would get as much respect as Jones did when he beat Ruiz. Which is a shame, cos Toney > Jones! i think the real reason theres less hype is cuz A its been now and B Ruiz hasnt been lookin great since so why would a win against him now mean more?

hmm 1. To use his name in the same breath as SRR is arrogance/self-delusion and insulting. Untrue. A match between the 2 would have been very competitive and interesting. 2. Unfortunatly some of the less knowledgable boxing fans will believe this rubbish, unaware that SRR started his career as a Lightweight - NOT a LIGHT-HEAVYWEIGHT like Bernard. Sugar Ray Leonard never was a lightweight. The lowest he's ever weighed in his career for a fight was 141 lbs very early on. Bernard Hopkins had one fight at which he was at 175 lbs or higher, in his 1st pro fight in which he lost. Hopkins never belonged at 175 lbs in the first place. He moved back and tried to counter Judah coming in, And he made the "next SRR - as Judah was being touted at the time" look very very average. Witter was told that he would never box in the States agian and was boo'd and frozen out of the scene for 5yrs. Judah made Witter look pretty average if you ask most people. Witter would not have been "frozen out of the scene" if he had fought decent fighters after Judah. 5 years after he fought Judah he finally fought N'dou.

Here is a report on the fight from the news: When the ring announcer read the official decision to the crowd on that fateful night, even the champion seemed ashamed of the result. Bloodied and battered, Beyer stared sheepishly at the canvas as his hand was raised in victory. Across the ring, Green remained in a state of complete bewilderment. So what happened? After sending the champion to the canvas with vicious right hands once in each of the opening two stanzas, a minor cut appeared over Beyer’s right eye. Green contends the cut was the result of a left hook, but referee Bill Clancy ruled that it was the result of an accidental head butt. Per the WBC rules, Clancy deducted a point from Green (unintentional head butts do not result in a point deduction for US-based fights) and the action resumed. Green quickly resumed pounding the champion. For the next two rounds, the beating dished out by Green rapidly worsened the cut above Beyer’s eye to the point where a stoppage was imminent. In the fifth round, however, Green made a stupid mistake that ultimately allowed local officials to rob him. During a clinch, Green committed an intentional head butt against the champion, albeit the clash occurred away from the cut. Clancy quickly (and rightfully) deducted two points from the challenger for the intentional foul and allowed the fight to continue. At the conclusion of the fifth round, the ringside doctor decided that the growing cut was too dangerous to for the fight to continue. Under the WBC rules, the fight should have gone to the scorecards because it was stopped after the start of the fifth round. Nevertheless, Clancy, the ringside doctor and several others huddled up for a discussion after the stoppage. Amazingly, Clancy returned from the impromptu meeting and declared the fight a disqualification win for Beyer. It was a shocking and unfortunate result to a very one-sided fight. Have you even seen the fight? Or do I need to upload it for you? I take it you haven't because that isn't even an accurate account of the fight on even the most basic non opinion aspects of the fight. For starters the fight did not continue after the intentional headbutt.

hmm Here is a report on the fight from the news: When the ring announcer read the official decision to the crowd on that fateful night, even the champion seemed ashamed of the result. Bloodied and battered, Beyer stared sheepishly at the canvas as his hand was raised in victory. Across the ring, Green remained in a state of complete bewilderment. So what happened? After sending the champion to the canvas with vicious right hands once in each of the opening two stanzas, a minor cut appeared over Beyer’s right eye. Green contends the cut was the result of a left hook, but referee Bill Clancy ruled that it was the result of an accidental head butt. Per the WBC rules, Clancy deducted a point from Green (unintentional head butts do not result in a point deduction for US-based fights) and the action resumed. Green quickly resumed pounding the champion. For the next two rounds, the beating dished out by Green rapidly worsened the cut above Beyer’s eye to the point where a stoppage was imminent. In the fifth round, however, Green made a stupid mistake that ultimately allowed local officials to rob him. During a clinch, Green committed an intentional head butt against the champion, albeit the clash occurred away from the cut. Clancy quickly (and rightfully) deducted two points from the challenger for the intentional foul and allowed the fight to continue. At the conclusion of the fifth round, the ringside doctor decided that the growing cut was too dangerous to for the fight to continue. Under the WBC rules, the fight should have gone to the scorecards because it was stopped after the start of the fifth round. Nevertheless, Clancy, the ringside doctor and several others huddled up for a discussion after the stoppage. Amazingly, Clancy returned from the impromptu meeting and declared the fight a disqualification win for Beyer. It was a shocking and unfortunate result to a very one-sided fight.

man Seriously, dude. You like GERMAN fighters and seem to be FROM Germany. I haven't seen you acknowledge one bad thing they have done with thei judging and reffing and yet I have seen many accounts that Beyer-Green I consisted of Beyer getting whacked, and the ref not allowing Green to handle his business.

Beyer's hometown BS was pretty obvious in that fight. In the 2nd fight he won legit, but that doesn't have ANYTHING to do with the 1st fight, obviously. How was it any different from Golota vs. Bowe I and II? Did Bowe get two hometown decisions? If you apply your logic he did. The only thing controversial was how bad Beyer looked and how dumb Golota, I mean Green fought during the fight. The last time I checked holding behind someone's head and pushing him down when you throw punches, throwing 6 punches after the ref has yelled break, forearming your opponent to the neck and face, tackling, and intentionally headbutting are not legal.

It seems to me that martin is confused as to the sport he's watching. The guys are supposed to box, just because some guy stands and trades doesn't make him a better boxer. He might make for a more exciting show, but that doesn't make him a better boxer. Excitement does not equal skill. Hopkins, as said above, outBOXED Eastman. You seem to have a skewed vision on what makes a boxer good.

hmm People whined that he was screwed in his first fight with Beyer when he was the one who screwed himself, and then Beyer owns him in the rematch. Beyer's hometown BS was pretty obvious in that fight. In the 2nd fight he won legit, but that doesn't have ANYTHING to do with the 1st fight, obviously. 1) Tarver is a good fighter. He is not great. He is bigger than Hops and would be a challange worthy to Hops. 2) Johnson is bigger and stronger than he was when Hopkins stopped him, and the fight is more interesting now as Johnson is the champ in his divison (2 divisions above Hops). However, Hops may not have a chance to fight Glen because Glen may get beat by Tarver in their rematch. Joe Calzaghe is a good fighter. Joe Calzaghe has also never dominated a respected and feared fighter like Tito and has never shown the completeness that Hopkins has showed in his career. Great fighters don't JUST brawl. Great fighters have more versatlity than that. Bernard has only made one fight where he fought a guy significantly smaller than him (DLH). Stop with the BS. Tito is a legit middleweight, and Hopkins deserved a money fight with DLH after all these years. RESPECT.

You're at it again.... :dunno: ... LOL!... You have to admit that America is an insuler Country right? All I'm saying is that Hopkins is not regarded as this "Amazing fighter" outside the U.S. as he is inside the U.S. - He's seen as more of a bully, Coz' he fights and calls out little guy's. There's a big difference between who he "say's" he'll fight, and who he "actually" fights. - A thing that made me laugh was that he was awarded "manager of 2004" ??? I give up... LOL!... Because he arranged a 3rd fight with Robert Allen and a complete miss-match in De La Hoya???... LOL!... The rest of the World don't share the same enthusiasm for Bernards so called "greatness" as the U.S. do. And his last fight against Howard Eastman (the 1st time in a while he fought a proper middleweight), he didn't come to fight. He came to run... Compare the likes of Pacquiao, Morales, Barerra, Tszyu, Hatton, Cotto, Judah, Calzaghe etc etc etc... These guy's COME TO FIGHT!... And fight they do! When was I at it before? Hopkins is a great fighter and he'd stack up with ANY great middleweight at any point in the history of the sport. You say that "the rest of the world" doesn't see him as some great fighter, but it sounds more like you are speaking on the behalf of yourself and maybe some of the UK. I'm sure that some people in the rest of the world have an opinion that is similar to yours, but a lot of people in the rest of the world have opinions that are very different from yours. Hopkins was BOXING in the Eastman fight. Last time I checked the sport was still called BOXING...not FIGHTING. Hopkins is a 40 year old man who has done something that no other fighter has ever done before...once again he's 40. Hop gave Eastman a beatdown in the second half of the fight and was almost landing at will. You sound bitter when you say that he was "running" from Eastman...like Eastman has such DEVASTATING power... :rolleyes: It's easy to appreciate guys like Morales and Tito who look to decapitate their opponent and go to war, but Hopkins is simply a different kind of fighter.

He and Lacy are the two best super-middleweights in the world IMO. Kessler has beat quality opposition in comparison to Calzaghe, and for the most part has been unrecognized by most boxing fans. Lacy should be ranked extremely high, because of his stopping Vanderpool, and his last outing against Williams. The two of them should end up fighting one another, for what I would deem as the "Super-Middleweight" title. I just dont buy into the Calzaghe hype. I dont get it. I am only looking at who I aesthetically think is a better fighter. Those two are the most impressive and bring heavy weapons in the ring. Mundine is a decent opponent, but I think Kessler is going to steam roll over him. Simply exert his will. Interesting fight nonetheless. Both can crack, and you could make the case that Mundine is the most stern test Kessler has faced yet. Not sure though, he made JC-Green look pathetic, and that says alot. Calzaghe never knocked a guy that caliber out, in the 1st round. He would also do the same to Veit, who Calzaghe stopped. That was nothing special IMO. And is the only weapon Calzaghe fans point to. Kessler's chin has pretty much not been tested yet, but Mundine's chin has been tested and it failed miserably. I still can't see how Ottke KO'd him. LOL. This should be an interesting fight.

You're at it again.... :dunno: ... LOL!... ! Do not think Hopkins is taking the easy route. Calzaghe has been ducking William Joppy for over 4 years now. Joppy makes it a point....to "Point that out". They were scheduled to fight in 2001, and Eastman was the last minute replacement for Calzaghe. Because Calzaghe was "Fishing" or "On Vacation" etc. Yeah right. He did not want to be clowned silly by a real fighter. And Calzaghe would be listening to Joppy's Elvis Presley impression, singing "Heart Break Hotel". Never pay again for live sex! | Hot girls doing naughty stuff for free! | Chat for free!

He called out the Tarver that had just knocked out Jones before Johnson did, this was when he was hot. Why would he duck some bum like Calzaghe who has been fighting bums his whole life... I'm not saying that he would duck Calzaghe. Just because Tarver was hot doesn't mean that he was that good. Please review Tarver vs. Johnson and please see the following thread: http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/showthread.php?t=32447

Considering that he already beat up on Johnson and that Tarver is overrated, I don't see why calling those two out is that big of a deal. He called out the Tarver that had just knocked out Jones before Johnson did, this was when he was hot. Why would he duck some bum like Calzaghe who has been fighting bums his whole life...