I always hear about how fighters think they can get inside of Vitaly and break him down, but what people don't realize is that Vitaly has a fantastic jab and he makes his living keeping smaller (which is just about everybody) fighters away from him.
Now looking back throughout history, who could have got inside him?
Joe Louis got inside Carnera and broke him down, but Carnera did not have a huge jab. Note: I may have the names down, but whoever got inside Carnera and beat him to a pulp is who I am talking about.
Joe Frazier always tried to get inside and rake your body, but when he tried that against Foreman, Forman killed him.
Mike Tyson was probably the best at getting inside he was able to beat many taller guys in his youth. Unfortunately, by the time he got to Lewis, he was shot and Lewis was able to keep him away with the jab.
Today, there are not a lot of heavyweight that have great body attacks. Perhaps Toney, but Toney is going to be giving away about 11 inches of height, and about 30 pounds.
The heavyweight that beats Vitaly will have to be used to being the smaller guy even though he is 6'4 240, and he has to be quick enough to slip the jab and get inside. Buy guys that big are used to throwing bombs and by the time they fight Vitaly will be stuck in their ways.
When Vitaly fights caustiously at a distance, there is nobody right now, or even ever, that can get inside and beat him. But that is what everbody's strategy is. Why is that?
If I was creating a fighter to beat Vitaly, I would mold him into a Larry Donald type who has very good reflexes and can pot shot Vitaly, the same way Jones did to Ruiz and win a 12 round fight without a lot of action. Note: This does not mean that I think Larry Donald will beat Vitaly.
When Vitaly loses, I think it will be when he gets caught while trading. There were moments that I though he could (not would) get knocked out against Sanders, and it think situaations like that can result in a knockout loss.
So how do you beat Vitaly?
Frazier, Ali, Foreman, Louis...
they can all say that they'd whoop VK... and I'm sure that's what they tell their buddies at the Barber Shop. They'd HAVE to to save face. White fighters aren't supposed to be HW champs.
Most of them Probably COULD beat VK, I'm not arguing that.
one funny thing to note:
for those that remember.. when VK fought LL.. George Foreman was commentating... he said "if Vitali wins, I'm coming back to boxing" :)
well VK didn't win, but then after he did, COME BACK GEORGE..
na, I don't want to see him get hurt. Just like LL, they have made their mark in History, why push it?
How good is Vitaly's jab at keeping off smaller fighters compared to Foreman and Lennox Lewis?
There are other tall heavyweights that I don't think could keep Frazier away, like Akawande and Grant, but Vitaly has been jabbing while backing up so well lately, that I can't see how a guy that small 5'11 210 can pressure Vitally all night. I think Frazier would have his moments, but enough to win the fight? It is doubtful.
In 2005, we may see Toney take a shot at it. Toney may very well be the pound 4 pound best heavyweight, but but Toney needs to have more height if he is really going to have a shot at breaking down Vitaly. And lifting a huge amount of weights to get to 225 is not going to cut it. Also, if Toney shows up at more than 230, the VK haters are going to have a feild day with the "If Toney wasn't such a fatsas" threads.
Is there anybody here that was around when Frazier was fighting that can shed some light onto this subject.
Big difference is . .Foreman was a much bigger puncher then Klitschko, and had much quicker hands, and notably a MUCH better uppercut. Frazier would be way too fast for Vitali, and his work-rate would get Vitali exhausted by the 3rd round . . .
Bonavena hit harder then Klitschko and Frazier steamrolled him . . .Mathis was also a huge HW with a good punch and Frazier steamrolled him. Size is not the issue. Klitschko has actually been outweighed in 3 of his last 4 fights. Its conditioning and proper boxing technique. Danny Williams would've given himself a greater chance if he'd weighed in a good 40-50 lbs less then he did, but even with that the man displayed a horrible defense and an awful fight plan . . .
:confused: Corrie Sanders is now one of the hardest hitting HWs of all time!??! LOL. How did he achieve this? By knocking out Wlad Klitschko? . . .Hasim Rahman took his best shots more then a few times in their fight and kept coming, but was put on queer street by Masgaev, Tua and Lewis and hurt by Ruiz.
i didnt see this post because of that clown who spammed up the thread, anyway this is exactly what my train of thought is. frazier was just an animal in the ring, he was constantly pressuring, bobbing and weaving and destorying bigger men for 15 rounds. his conditioning was incredible. the pace he would set there is no way vitali could keep up. even if danny williams was in better shape vitali would still destory him. hes a bum. all he has is a big punch but hes wobbled anytime hes hit with solid punches. he has almost zero head movement and a pathetic jab, giving him absolutely no chance to get in on vitali no matter what kind of shape hes in
Watching the Joe Frazier fights of the 60s and 70s one would think that.
I am not sure how big Frazier was, but I would bet that he was about 5'11 or 6'. He also weighed about 210, but with the nutrition of today he could get up to 220-230 without much of a problem.
The question is, how many shots would he have to take to keep raking VK to the body.
The Foreman fights were a little indicative of what would happen. frazier would be caught coming in.
the question to me is how many shots could vitali take once frazier did the inevitable and got right past his jab or whatever he was throwing out. arguably the best bob and weave in history, he constantly fought bigger fighters none could keep him out. he just destoyed solid big men for fun. vitali is NOT big george, theres nothing similar in what they do so i have no clue why you think vitali could do the same to frazier ?? how are they similar? just wondering
How do you beat Vitaliy?
Vitaliy is a league above anyone in the HW division.
One can have a "win" over Vitaliy on cuts and injures, but there is no way any of the current and recent champs can beat Vitaliy.
Dempsey fire, just of curiosity how many Corrie Sanders fights have you actually watched? Did you know that he repeatedly had his gloves checked after a fight( as an amateur) to make sure they werent loaded? Rahman took his punches yes but he also said that Sanders is the hardest hitter hes ever faced? Also you mentioned was hurt by Maskaev, Lewis, and Tua. Would you also say they arent hard hitters? And does that also mean just because Danny Williams was put down by Sinan Samil Sam does that mean he is a heavier hitter than Tyson? Not trying for an argument just curious