Stephen 'Breadman' Edwards names boxers from history who would trouble Terence Crawford, tells fighters the true value of their trainers and evaluates Artur Gatti's place in the Hall of Fame.
What's up, Bread. I haven't written in for a while but always try to read your work every week. I have a question about what styles you think would historically beat Terence Crawford. I've said before, I think he's on par with anyone in history with his processing which is why I think he's close to a perfect fighter when you combine it with his physical gifts. Who at 135/140/147/154 do you think would have been the top 3 toughest fights for him and why? It's hard for me to think of a people historically who have anything close to an easy night against Bud. On top of all of his physical skills being A-level, he's a switch hitter, a great jabber who throws it in multiple ways, a guy who sets you up mentally and physically for counters, he has the mindset and desire to land and trade in a smart way, fights good on the inside, is physically strong, has a gas tank (think he would have been an excellent 15-round fighter) and has a killer instinct that is most importantly always used at the right time. I think in any era against anyone he gives what we would still talk about as a classic fight. Thanks, Jake
Bread’s response: This is a very good question. I’m going to give it a shot. But I want to preface this with: My answers won’t be who I think are the three best fighters in these classes. My answer will stem from who I think would give Bud the three toughest fights stylistically in each weight class.
At 135lbs, I would say Roberto Duran, Ike Williams, and Floyd Mayweather. I feel like Duran has the stamina, physical strength, and defensive skill set to give Bud fits. I feel Ike Williams and Bud are very similar fighters and Bud looking at someone as mean and skilled as him would be an obstacle. I feel like Floyd Mayweather is a little faster for one punch than Bud and has the ability to process mentally at the same level Bud does. Mayweather would be a very difficult for Bud stylistically.
At 140lbs, I would say Oscar De La Hoya, Kostya Tszyu, and Aaron Pryor. I feel like Oscar peaked out at 140lbs in first fight with Chavez. If you watch that first fight with Chavez, then you watch Bud vs Jose Benavidez Jnr you would know that Oscar’s sharp jab, hand speed and power would be tough on Bud. Kostya Tszyu has a higher amateur pedigree than Bud, he has a money right hand which is the one shot that Bud gets hit with while he’s in the southpaw stance, and Tszyu didn’t shy away from fighting talented black fighters. I feel like Bud would probably clip Aaron Pryor but the funny thing about Pryor is, he always looked like he would be clipped, but it never really happened. If Bud didn’t clip him, I wonder if he could keep up with that insane pace. No one was able to.
At 147lbs, I would say Sugar Ray Robinson, Sugar Ray Leonard and Tommy Hearns. This would a murderers’ row for Bud to get through. I don’t need to go into details but these would be his toughest trio of fights out of the question you asked me.
At 154lbs, I would say Mike McCallum, Tito Trinidad and Emile Griffith. McCallum is a smooth body counter puncher just like Bud. He also has the physical strength and chin to stand up to Bud’s sharp attacks. Trinidad peaked out at 154. The Tito that fought David Reid, Mamadou Thiam and Fernando Vargas would be tough on Bud because he doesn’t get tired and he’s sharp enough to hit Bud clean. I know Bud would be the favorite but that’s no easy fight. Griffith is underrated as a case for being the best ever at 154. Griffith has the jab and physical strength to really trouble Bud. He also is very well-equipped to go 15 hard rounds so Bud wouldn’t have his usual conditioning advantage. Last, but not least, Griffith is not tall, but he has extremely long arms very similar to Bud which would be a factor in this tactical fight.
Bread, I’m a huge fan of the skill of Jaron Ennis but is he: 1) Avoiding better opportunities because of a management team that isn't aware of the damage he's doing to his image; 2) trying to become the heal, so that he will eventually get the very biggest pay days; 3) internally lacking confidence despite his outward persona? He has a line of respected opposition that could keep him busy for the next three years. Thanks, Jeremy
Bread’s response: I’m not a part of Ennis’ team so I don’t know or ask what’s going on behind the scenes. That being said, I’m relatively sure it’s not 2 or 3 and I don’t know if it’s 1 because I don’t know even know who’s in charge of making decisions for his team.
Let’s just see what the next year or two brings. Sometimes it just takes certain fighters a little longer to break through as superstars. But I will say this. With the field of opponents at 154lbs, and if Ennis is as good as I think he is, he should become a superstar with these possible opponents on the horizon.
Good day. I get the feeling Crawford will fight at least one more time in 2026, he's a competitive dude and I'm sure Turki wants him out again. He's at his height in terms of marketability and is currently "the guy". I imagine a Jermall Charlo at 168 or undisputed/unification at 160. I think Janibek is his hardest fight, that herky-jerky Eastern European style and a fellow southpaw. I personally prefer Jermall because it’s a more mainstream fight that casuals will appreciate. ‘Mall has a great jab, a real 168, and it'll move the needle with the black fanbase akin to Tank vs Roach/Martin. Secondly, I been watching some Pernell Whitaker highlights and he took some tough matchups stylistically. The McGirt and Hurtado fights, he had to show real dog to eek those out. Can you give me cliff notes on Sweet Pea as a fighter (his style, career, historical standing, etc.) Thirdly, I see the new fighter to hate is Ennis. Previously it was Bud, then Haney, and now Jaron. Rite of passage, I guess. He couldn't get solid fights at 147 as Norman and Barrios didn't fight him so he outgrew the weight. Now Brian Mendoza openly admits to turning the fight down so he fights a Lima to get acclimated and still gets shitted on. It's some legacy fights to be made at 154. I hope he makes a point and fights Murtazaliev. Anyways, God bless brother.
Bread’s response: It’s crazy you asked me about Pernell Whitaker. I was just watching his fight vs Jorge Paez. Whitaker is possibly the best amateur fighter I have seen on video. Look at his 1984 Olympic run and tell me what you think. He was a top 2 fighter of the 1990s. He’s most likely a top 3 southpaw ever. He’s a top 5 lightweight ever. He’s one of the top 4 or 5 fighters since 1980. He’s one of the top pure boxers ever. He has a case for being one of the best body punchers ever. He has a top 10 jab. And he’s one of the most confident fighters I have ever seen. I don’t have enough compliments for Pernell Whitaker.
I often evaluate fighters and match them up relative to their eras etc. Whitaker is unique because at first glance I say to myself, he’s a little small for certain match ups. He also doesn’t have the raw physicality that fighters like Ray Leonard, Roy Jones and Terence Craawford have. But then you look at his fight vs Oscar De La Hoya who does have the frame, size, power and raw physicality. And Whitaker who was past his prime, fought Oscar on pretty much even terms. Whitaker won titles from 135-154. He may not beat everyone in history circa 135-147 but he beats more of the greats, than greats who can beat him. And I personally I think on his best night, he beats most of the greats at 135 if not all.
For the record I think Whitaker’s prime run was from Greg Haugen in 1989 to the Buddy McGirt rematch in 1994. That 5-year run was special. It contained a few perfect performances vs Haugen and the Ramirez rematch. Along with some special HOF performances vs Azumah Nelson, Buddy McGirt and Julio Cesar Chavez.
It’s crazy that Ennis gets so much hate. I get hate for saying he’s an elite talent and he’s 34-0 (30 KOs) and he was a unified champion. It’s weird that people get upset with me for saying he’s a special talent. But nothing has happened that proves me wrong. If he would’ve lost or struggled with Staninios then they would’ve come out in droves to tell me I overrated him. It’s almost as if they’re mad that he hasn’t been exposed, instead of giving him his props. This is a weird world we live in.
I believe there are five active boxers in the world who are worldwide star celebrities. Those fighters are: Canelo Alvarez, Terence Crawford, Gervonta Davis, Manny Pacquiao and Jake Paul. Three of those five are likely wrapping up their careers by 2027. Paul’s selling power also isn’t likely to last. Even though he’s young, he could be done with boxing by 2027 as well. One wrong punch could end him. Davis is the only one who seems to have the potential to be a long-time star. We could soon be entering a world where he’s the only boxing star around. Throughout my lifetime, I always knew about the next stars and the next stars who didn’t actually become stars. I don’t see the next star. I see great young boxers like Shakur Stevenson. I don’t think he’ll be a worldwide celebrity and I don’t think anyone in his generation will be that either. I see marketable guys who aren’t good enough to become celebrity-type boxing stars anymore. Those are guys like Ryan Garcia, Cletus Seldin and Adrien Broner. I don’t see any future boxing stars for the first time in my life. As a boxing fan, it scares me. Am I wrong or do you have the same feeling I do? Just to clarify, this isn’t about talent. It’s about being a marketable, worldwide celebrity like Mayweather, Tyson, Ali, etc.
Bread’s response: Let me tell you a secret. We have to allow stars to earn their star status and not try make one. Mike Tyson did NOT make the 1984 Olympic team. But he became the biggest star out of all of the fighters who turned pro out of that amateur class. Floyd Mayweather was not a gold medallist in the 1996 games. David Reid was. Yet Mayweather was the bigger star by a mile. Manny Pacquiao came in on the B-side vs Marco Antonio Barrera. He was brought in to lose. He won the fight and went on a historic run and became the biggest Asian star in history. Terence Crawford was not an Olympian. He had to fight for his first title on the road. He didn’t get his first superfight until he was 35. Yet he’s a superstar.
The boxing world wanted to make Adrien Broner the next Floyd Mayweather, while they had Terence Crawford in the same era, right in front of their faces and they overlooked him for most of his career, because he wasn’t loud and boisterous. The powers that be are getting this wrong consistently. All they need to do, is allow the talent to rise to the top and the audience will latch on. Instead, they try make fighters stars, who haven’t earned it and those fighters either don’t have the physical talent or mental fortitude to pull it off.
The next star will reveal himself to the masses when the opportunity presents itself. We won’t have to make him. We won’t have to look for him. He’s going to shine at his brightest, when everyone is looking and he’s going to become a star in front of our eyes. Don’t worry.
Dear Breadman, You recently wrote how Sugar Ray Robinson and Muhammad Ali sat alone in the front room of boxing. I have little argument there. However, I want to add my $0.02 to the conversation. Especially as it concerns the heavyweight greatest of all-time. You've no doubt covered this ground before, but I think Sonny Liston (circa 1956-1958) would be even-money against the Cassius Clay/Muhammad Ali (circa 1964-1966). Liston had a very fast jab, while Ali had the fastest jab in the business, which hit before anyone ever saw it coming. The difference: Ali’s jab was meant to keep an opponent off-balance and score points with the judges, while Liston’s lightning jab was a thunderous knockout punch. I think a prime Ali versus a prime Liston would be a 50/50, pick ‘em fight. Personally, I would shade the odds in favor of Liston. There are many worthies to consider for front room honors, such as Joe Louis, Lennox Lewis, Rocky Marciano, Jack Dempsey, Larry Holmes, George Foreman, Joe Frazier, and so on. But I think Sonny Liston, in his prime, was special. (Even Big George Foreman said that in training an elderly Liston was the only man who could make him back up.) Liston wasn’t as spectacularly flashy as Sugar Ray Robinson or Muhammad Ali, but he’s definitely deserving a seat in the front room of the boxing pantheon with the other two. Especially if he's considered the equal of the incomparable Muhammad Ali. In my humble opinion. Aloha! Michael
Bread’s response: Sonny Liston was a great fighter. He’s a HOF and he’s a top 15ish heavyweight ever. But you’re out of your mind if you think he sits in the same room as Ali and Robinson. And you’re out of your mind if you think he’s 50/50 with Ali on their best days. You guys sort of irk me with this ridiculous logic. It’s just stupid, if I’m being frank.
Ali was a 22-year-old kid, who had just got knocked down by Henry Cooper and held to a tough 10-round decision vs Doug Jones when he fought Sonny Liston. Liston was a 7-to-1 favorite to destroy Ali. Liston cheated during the fight by using a substance to blind Ali. Ali still won and made him quit. Then he stopped him in a rematch. No matter what you think of the circumstances of the rematch, Ali’s character unnerved Liston.
I am a fan of Liston. I went to his book signing here in Philadelphia at the African American Museum in downtown Philly. I try to be fair with my assessments of all fighters. And I fully acknowledge that Liston is underrated. He’s one of the best head-to-head heavyweights ever. I think he has a real case for beating fighters like Foreman, Lewis, Frazier, Tyson, Klitshcko, Holyfield and Louis. Liston was real. But he would never, at no time whatsoever, be 50/50 with Ali. Ali proved it by not only standing up to him, but by seeking him out to fight him in the first place. Bully fighters don’t like people challenging them.
Stylistically, Ali is all wrong for any version of Liston. Liston does have a great jab. But he was a plodder. Ali was a floater. It’s hard for plodders to beat floaters. Liston also fought in a very bladed stance with his left shoulder overly pointed towards his opponent. It’s hard to cut the ring off in a bladed stance. Whereas a fighter like Frazier, who’s a bobber, can go either direction faster and get to Ali more. Frazier may be more squared up and he can’t out-jab Ali. But he can cut the ring off better and force Ali to the ropes more. Liston would actually have a better chance vs fighters like Frazier, Marciano and Tyson. So, stop the nonsense. Stop trying to be too smart and make up scenarios that you wanted to happen. And live with what did happen. What happened was Ali as a 22-year-old, 19-0 underdog, dominated the 35-1 Liston and beat him up. Live with it!
Peace and blessings as always sir, Quick hypothetical scenario, three of the greatest athletes ever Bo Jackson, Jim Brown and Jackie Robinson walk into your gym you have the task of turning one of them into a fighter amateur to professional. I am choosing these guys in particular because of their abilities as great multi-sport athletes. From the outside it appears Jim Brown might have been the meanest, Robinson being the most composed and Beau Jack probably the most fast twitch. All three men were special in their own rights I’m interested to see who you would train. Thanks for your time. Jack in Minnesota
Bread’s response: My grandfather always told me that he believed Jim Brown would be heavyweight champion of the world, if he chose boxing. So, when I read your question, I knew I had to include it in my mailbag. Fighters don’t like to hear this but boxers are the toughest athletes in the world. But they aren’t the most athletic in terms of measurables like sprint speed, vertical jump, weightlifting prowess, etc. When you have a fighter who has the athleticism of elite athletes in other sports like football, basketball and baseball you have an ATG fighter. It’s rare fighters have THAT level of athleticism.
Believe it or not, I would pick Jackie Robinson. Robinson ran a 21-second 200m on dirt tracks with limited spikes. He was about 5ft 11ins and 195lbs. So he would probably box around 175lbs maybe even 168lbs. If you watch him run around the bases, you knew his TWITCH was sick. He was also an elite football and basketball player. So he was every bit the athlete Brown and Jackson were. Although I think they all would be excellent fighters if they started boxing in their formative years, I picked Robinson because of his hand-eye coordination in hitting a baseball. That correlates to boxing. He was an elite second basemen which shows excellent reaction time to track ground balls at a fast rate of speed.
I know Jackson could hit too but Robinson was a better hitter. I also like Robinson’s composure that you spoke of. Excelling in baseball at the time he did, takes elite composure and inner drive. The same thing it takes for fighters to win big fights on the road and as underdogs.
I saw your interaction with Cris Cyborg on twitter a few weeks back and I wanted to chime in. You were 100 per cent correct. If a trainer is with a fighter from the early stages and he’s making 10 per cent, he’s earned that 10 per cent once the fighter makes seven figures. I can’t believe how much of scumbag she is. She claimed her team shouldn’t even know how much she makes. I know you’re glad you don’t train her. My question is how do you find out how much a fighter makes so this can’t happen to you? And has any fighter ever screwed you out of money?
Bread’s response: It’s not really about being right or wrong. She feels how she feels, and I feel how I feel. But I don’t want to understand her perspective because I think it’s evil. I will leave it at that.
I’ve had a couple of fighters that I wasn’t really training but I was doing things for, try to screw me. One wanted to run and do S & C with my guys in the morning. I told him all good. Just when he fights throw me a couple of bucks. He was only fighting on ESPN so it wasn’t a huge purse. After his fight, he acted like he had trouble cashing his check. After a week I didn’t say anything else. He knew he couldn’t ask me for anything else. I literally would’ve been ok with $150. He was only making $15k on ESPN. So for $150 this guy could never ask me for anything else. He did me a favor. The cool part was, he never won another significant fight. And I got to watch him get knocked out repeatedly. He got the worst karma ever. He went from being a contender to a stepping stone in the blink of an eye.
Another fighter came to me and asked me to get him signed to a big company. I did it. I told him I would need a percentage and that I don’t work for free. We settled on 7.5 per cent. He paid me for his first fight. His second fight, he started to act funny. I knew what he was doing. I just told the promoter to put him in with a guy I was trying to avoid because I knew he would beat the fighter I had got signed and that would be it for him. They put him in with the fighter I was trying to avoid and his career was literally over that day. I never even asked for my money. I got satisfaction in seeing him lose bad because I knew his intent was to screw me over for no reason. I literally did exactly what he asked me to do and that’s get him signed.
I’m answering you transparently, but I don’t really count these as fighters that I trained or advised. There were just fighters who wanted help and didn’t want to pay for the help they got. As far as the fighters who I had real relationships with and you would know me for being associated with, I haven’t had any real issues as far as pay. One of the main reasons I don’t have issues, is I discuss the pay before the bout. When I say pay, I mean their pay and my pay. We agree on my pay before camp. There is literally no way there can be any misunderstandings. There are ways to find out what a fighter is making. But if I have to jump through hoops to find out, then I will just respectfully walk away. I expect the fighter to be honest with me. But if you’re asking for a bullet proof way to know, you would have to go directly to the promoter. And the promoter may lie, so you have to be someone in the know. I’m usually in the know.
Employees of boxers are working off commission. Just like a car salesperson or a real estate. Can you imagine telling a real estate agent, you can sell this house but I can’t disclose to you how much it will be sold for? That’s how ridiculous it sounds to tell a head trainer. You can train me, but I won’t tell you how much I’m making.
Also let me clear something up. A 10 per cent fee has been the usual standard for head trainers. I’m NOT saying that trainers who take less than 10 per cent are wrong. I’m not saying that fighters who don’t pay 10 per cent are wrong. Just to be clear and exact with my perspective, what I’m saying is, so there are no misunderstandings on this touchy subject:
1. The fee that a trainer is paid should be discussed and agreed upon BEFORE camp. As long as both parties agree, whatever it is, it is.
2. If a trainer was making 10 per cent of 1k, 5k, 10k, 50k and 100k progressively, then the fighter gets to the 1M mark and tells the trainer that they will get a flat rate and it’s less than 10 per cent, I personally don’t like the feeling behind that. Because the fighter is basically saying they don’t want to see the trainer make too much money. I know trainers that begrudgingly accept this because they don’t earn enough income elsewhere. That sucks. But at the end of the day if the trainer accepted it, he accepted it.
3. What’s never okay, in my opinion, is if a trainer was making 10 per cent his entire time with the fighter. And they get to a big 7- or 8-figure payday and the fighter cuts the trainer’s fee to a flat rate and doesn’t tell him until AFTER the fight. That’s scandalous and disingenuous. If you’re going to cut a trainer’s fee, at least tell him before the camp, so he can either accept or reject it. If the fighter doesn’t tell the trainer beforehand, it’s a form of FRAUD in my opinion.
4. When a fighter is already an established star and he’s making high 6-figures or 7-figures and he doesn’t want to pay 10 per cent to a trainer, it’s a little more understandable. But it still has to be discussed BEFORE camp. I hope I was clear.
I also want to say this loud and clear to fighters, young and old. Treat your team right. There’s nothing wrong with going home with 70-80 per cent of your pay. There’s nothing wrong with protecting yourself. But don’t short-change the person who is with you every day in the gym. Don’t short-change the person who has that white towel in his hand to save your life. Because I know trainers who are so scorned and jaded, they do just enough to get paid. But they don’t put their hearts into training anymore because of how rotten fighters have done them over the years.
As a fighter you want someone in your corner who looks at you as more than a pay day. Energy is transferable. Fighters, if you want to save money, don’t pick on the trainer. Often times these trainers don’t have other ways to make, let’s say, 50k in one night. So they will take that pay off of a 2m purse although it should be way more. That’s cruel. Fighters can save money with their family members who always need something after their fights. They can save money on their girlfriends and wives. They can save money on their entourage. But it is, in essence, a bully tactic to pick the one person who makes the least amount hour for hour. Fighters are a little afraid to do this to their managers because they know the managers can hurt their earning potential in different ways. They don’t do it to the promoters because they know the same. But they sort of pick on the so-called weak link (trainer). It’s not okay.
Every time I’ve ever seen a fighter royally screw their team over I’ve seen that fighter get it back in the worst way. Be fair and honorable to your trainer and he will give you his all. In a game of inches, the little things matter.
Marvin Hagler was not my favorite fighter out of the 4 Kings. I can openly say that. But Marvin Hagler is one of the most honorable men to ever step in a boxing ring. Hagler had a “handshake deal” with the Petronelli brothers for training and managing him. Once he became a huge star, they offered to lessen their percentage. Hagler got offended and told them to take the same percentage they took when he was coming up as a contender. In Hagler’s last fight in 1987 vs Sugar Ray Leonard he had a guarantee of $12m plus a percentage of the Closed Circuit which was $25m. Hagler’s total payout was close to $20m in 1987! He made sure the Petronelli’s got the same percentage as they did when he was young prospect. That’s a man’s man.
Hey Breadman! Thoughts on Vernon Forrest as a candidate for the Hall of Fame? I remember how crazy the first Mosley fight was. Loved him as a person. Does he go first ballot? Does it ever bother you that Gatti went in first ballot? It kills me with some of the guys who aren't in. Gatti was owned by every Hall of Famer he fought. Action is great but there were plenty of Gattis back in the day on the old Tuesday/Friday night fights. Not trying to be a hater (while being a hater). Anyways, always look forward to the mailbag, keep up the great work!
Bread’s response: My answer will surprise you but I have ZERO issue with Arturo Gatti being in the HOF. He won his first title in 1995 and lost his last title in 2005. That’s an unreal run for a so-called action fighter. Gatti beat Jesse James Leija, Tracy Patterson, Gabriel Ruelas, Leonard Dorin, Terron Millet and Wilson Rodriguez. Gatti being just some face first slugger is overblown. Gatti was a very good fighter. Not a great fighter. But a great action fighter. If you put that together with his longevity, his big punch, box office appeal and being a part of at least 7 of the best 10 fights of the era he's a HOFer. Arturo Gatti moved the needle in his era and that’s a big deal. Gatti deserves to be in the HOF.
On the other hand, while Vernon Forrest was a better fighter than Gatti he didn’t have a better career. His best career win over Shane Mosley was huge. Mosley was #1 P4P and 38-0. I would never minimize that. But other than the signature wins vs Mosley, Forrest’s resume is very thin. He doesn’t have a long, distinguished reign vs top Ring rated fighters. He wasn’t undisputed. He was never #1 P4P. He lost fights as a big favorite. And the next best fighter he fought besides Mosley was Ike Quartey. Forest got the decision but Quartey won that fight. So while I wouldn’t be outraged if Forest got in, I’ve seen lesser fighters get in recently. I don’t think he’s a Hall of Famer and certainly not a first ballot.
Good morning Bread, Who do you consider to be your top 3-5 most aesthetically pleasing boxers ever? Whether they are considered "great" boxers or not historically doesn't matter. Graceful, fluid, smooth. Who could you watch again and again due to the beauty of their style? For me, I always think of a prime Jorge Linares. Don, Houston
Bread’s response: I love this question. Because it’s multi-layered. It’s not who’s the best. It’s who’s the best looking. I’m not going to pick my favorite fighters. I’m going to pick my favorite fighters to watch and study. All in their primes: Ricardo Lopez; Alexis Arguello; Roberto Duran; Chocolatito; Salvador Sanchez; Pernell Whitaker and Julian “Jrock” Williams. I know you guys expected me to pick Robinson, Leonard and Ali. But this is a different question. Love it.
Are people serious when they say GGG is not a Hall of Famer? I just don’t know anymore. I see why you say boxing has the worst fans in all of sports. GGG being a HOF is a no brainer. He’s a first ballot Hall of Famer. Why do you think opinions these days vary so much on what seems to be obvious things?
Bread’s response: I think people today suffer from SPITRS. Smartest Person In the Room Syndrome. Only a person who’s trying to be a contrarian would play devil’s advocate and say GGG is not a HOF. I don’t get into if a fighter should be a first ballot HOF or not because that’s an uncontrollable variable. If they get enough votes, they get enough votes.
You will hear, he never beat a HOF. Well that’s not a criterion. Beating a HOF helps. But context is important. What if someone says William Joppy, who was a very good middleweight champion, should go in over GGG because Joppy beat a HOF and GGG didn’t. Then you look at Joppy’s record and see he fought Roberto Duran when Duran around 50. I’m at a point now where I may have a little fun on X but I don’t have real conversations about boxing with anyone under 40.
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