Daily Bread Mailbag: PBC, Golovkin, Kovalev-Ward, Trainers, More

By Stephen 'Breadman' Edwards

The Daily Bread Mailbag returns with Stephen 'Breadman' Edwards discussing topics such as the best trainers in boxing history, Gennady Golovkin vs. Andre Ward, fighters moving up in weight, Premier Boxing Champions and more.

Hey Bread,

Please write a boxing book!

I talked to Nacho Beristain two weeks ago outside a McAllen Tx. Sprouts store. His work with the Marquez brothers and others speaks for itself.

Ray Arcel an Eddie Futch contemporary and rival considered himself the best trainer in boxing.

I thought that Manny Steward molded Superman Stevenson into the fighter he was. I also thought that Stevenson would collapse after Steward's untimely passing. Looks like Sugar Hill is carrying on what Steward was working on with the Haitian Champion. Stevenson looked very good in his last fight in my opinion. I did not like the way Duva promotions was trying to discredit Stevenson, saying he was ducking Kovalev, but that all backfired on them when they requested to be made the #1 contender for his belt and then had to pull out of the purse bid for a fight rather than risk losing that bid. They ended up discrediting themselves in that situation. They had been lowballing Stevenson to fight Kovalev all along and then spinning it to say Stevenson was ducking Kovalev.

I consider Angelo Dundee more of a cornermen than a trainer.

Ward is very skillful and cerebral, doing a lot of things a lot of casual fight fans don't pay attention to. In one fight sequence against Barrera, Ward caught Barrera's left jab with his right, then countered it with a right cross. Ward is very unconventional and that will be his greatest asset against the Krusher. He does things like BHop but he's more agile and athletic than the Executioner is.

I thought that GGG ducked Ward only because his weight condition for fighting Ward was so different than the conditions GGG's team put forth to fight Froch and Chavez Jr. who they were also aiming to fight around the same time, considering it was GGG who said he'd fight anyone from 154lbs to 168lbs. The 164lbs request for Ward, while willing to fight the other two guys at 168lbs was the turning point for me along with the way they were spinning it in the media.

I've been thinking about Garcia/Thurman and Garcia can settle into a calm rhythm and fight Thurman similar to the way he fought Amir Khan, because Thurman leaves himself open a lot when he's on offense. There's a left hook counterpunch with Thurman's name on it that Garcia can land if he maintains his poise under fire. But Thurman can outwork Garcia if Garcia waits too long to shoot his shots.

Bread’s Response: Most of the older generations feel that Eddie Futch is the gold standard among trainers. I wouldn’t argue….

Manny Steward did a great job with Adonis Stevenson and Sugar Hill is carrying it over well. There are so many great trainers I actually forgot about Hill. I apologize to him. He’s been doing a fantastic job.

Main Events pulling out of that purse bid sort of let Stevenson off the hook. The ducking claims had to calm down after that. That was a great move by Team Stevenson.

There is a difference between a great trainer and a great cornerman. I’m glad you pointed it out. Good job. A trainer can get you in shape in the gym and work on the technical and physical aspect of the fight. A cornerman walks you through a fight as the fight is going on. But he may not be the guy who is in the gym honing the skills. Great pick up.

Ward is not only unconventional at times but his mind quickness makes him hard to predict. He lands punches at opportune times that his opponents don’t seem ready for. If you notice Ward rarely gets counterpunched. That tells me his opponents can’t gauge when he’s attacking. Because of this, he mentally fatigues his opponents.

Golovkin’s team has done one of the best PR jobs I have ever seen. In my opinion their only mistake was the 154-168 call out of everyone.

Garcia vs Thurman will be a tremendous fight. I don’t know anyone picking Danny Garcia. It’s strange to me because I think it’s a close fight.

Breadman, I really enjoy reading your columns! Your insight & commentary on the fight game is virtually unmatched. Some time ago you told people to look out for Oleksandr Usyk. You could not have been more correct! Since you wrote that, I've paid close attention to him. He is a beast! He's almost like a 200lb. Lomachenko! The cruiserweight division as a whole is really talented. I'm really looking forward to Lebedev vs. Gassiev.

How do you see that one going? Good luck also with Julian versus Charlo. That's a great fight between two young, talented fighters. I see Julian stopping him in the later rounds after following your game plan. Thanks Again, Dan

Bread’s Response: Lebedev vs Gassiev is going to be a brutal shootout. Hardcores will love that one.

Usyk has that probing high guard style that is hard to figure out. It’s especially hard for bigger slower fighters. Ricardo Lopez, The Marquez Brothers and Lomachenko often used it. But Usyk is a 200 pounder. I wouldn’t be surprised if he won the heavyweight championship. He’s that good.

Stephen (aka Breadman):

As you correctly indicate and I am paraphrasing "It is not fair to label a fighter as ducking another fighter when said fighter is in another weight division". Also, far too many uninformed wanna be pundits comment on how GGG avoided Ward. To be frank, unless anyone was actually privy to what transpired (as well as any potential terms being offered - this as we know often makes or breaks the potential for a fight being made) between each respective parties then they really DO NOT know and should refrain from inane speculation.

We all remember quite a remarkable fighter (who I had the privilege to see fight many many times) who never moved up from the middleweight division is considered one of the greatest middleweights of all times. I am sure we all know of Marvelous Marvin Hagler. I believe that team GGG may have considered fighting Ward but has other move viable options in line what what he is looking to do, which is totally unify the belts. Ward while still being a very talented fighter (notwithstanding he may not be in his prime) is really not relevant other than to hard core fans.

Other than the Oracle Arena (and even then), Ward has zero drawing power, as the fight this month is not even close to being sold out. If GGG was fighting a tomato can it would have sold out almost immediately.

That said, I plan to attend the fight on the 19th as it has the making to be a good one maybe a great one!.

Again, thank you for your insight as your positions are sober and based on sound knowledge about boxing and not vacuous opinions. Unfortunately far too many speak have no real knowledge about what they are talking about.

JJH

Bread’s Response: Thanks my man.

I personally think the Ward vs GGG saga is getting old. One is a middleweight and the other is a light heavyweight. The fight will probably never happen. There was only a small window for it to happen anyway….Ward is about to fight in one of the biggest fights in the history of the light heavyweight division.

I actually think Andre Ward is a star. I get emails about him everyday. He’s not a superstar but he’s definitely a star. There are only a handful of superstars in boxing and as far as American fighters Ward’s star power is only behind the retired Floyd Mayweather and Adrien Broner. Other than Broner, Ward commands more attention than any other active American fighter.

As far as fighters having to move up I think it’s hog wash. Who makes these rules? I think it’s the same person who said that challenger has to take the fight to the champion. Somehow suggesting that a challenger can’t box to win a championship fight off of his back foot. Or somehow his criterion for winning a round is higher than a defending champion.

The baddest man walking around in the 80s which is in my opinion the second greatest decade ever was Marvin Hagler. He’s everybody’s favorite hardcore guy. He never moved up. He didn’t duck anyone he just didn’t move up because it was not for him. Eusabio Pedraza the terrific Panamanian featherweight of the same era never moved up in a significant fight. In the decade before the baddest man walking around beside Roberto Duran was Carlos Monzon. He never moved up. Why because it wasn’t for him.

Carl Froch who forged a Hall of Fame career for himself never moved up from Super Middleweight and he fought Murderer’s Row. I can really go on and on with Hall of Fame names.

Here is another issue I have with this. I have seen fighters who are no where near on the Hall of Fame level, win titles in multiple weight classes. We all have. It’s really a watered down accomplishment in this era unless you unify, beat great fighters to obtain it or win lineal Ring magazine titles. Fighters also use moving up to duck competition. I have seen it numerous times. They make pit stops at certain weights, grab vacant titles then hightail it out of there as soon as the masses start pressuring them to fight a unification vs a certified bad ass. You don’t believe me. Look how many fighters stayed at 122lbs for a hot second while the Jackal is lurking and begging to fight other champions. Nobody seems to like fighting at 122lbs. I wonder why, lol.

I think if a fighter can safely make a weight and he consistently fights the biggest available threat or highest rated contender it’s nothing wrong with a fighter showing discipline and reigning at one weight class.

Look at how many fighters hurt their legacies by trying to move up when it wasn’t for them. Meldrick Taylor had no business fighting Terry Norris above welterweight. Jose Napoles was way too small to mess with Carlos Monzon at middleweight. Bob Foster’s legacy gets clipped often when you watch him get kod by Frazier, Ali, Doug Jones and Ernie Terrell. His move ups were disastrous every single time. It’s the reason why Michael Spinks, Archie Moore and Ezzard Charles are routinely rated over him at 175. You guys may not realize this but Oscar De La Hoya’s best weight as far as performances was 140lbs. Watch him at 140 he was money! But he only stayed there for 3 fights. Oscar could have easily been top 3 or 4 ever at that weight but he didn’t stay long enough. He was never as dominant or overwhelming at 147 as he was at 140. If you don’t believe me youtube vs Darly Tyson, Chavez 1 and Miguel Angel Gonzales.

Moving up in weight is special. I get it and understand it. But it’s not for every fighter. Are we going to suggest that Leo Gamez a 3 division champion is greater than Marvin Hagler or Gennady Golovkin…..

Klitschko-Joshua

In light of the WBA's bizarre decision to approve Klitschko-Joshua as 'super' WBA, I'm guessing the fight will be made sometime next Spring. Joshua is all wrong for Klitschko. I would bet money on Joshua even he's 3 to 1 favorite. I used to root for Klitschko, but gradually started to dislike his style...and the Povetkin fight has done it for me... HOWEVER, one has to highly respect Klitschko's willingness to fight anyone. If he was a middleweight, he would fight Golovkin NEXT (not eventually)!

PBC

I know you're not a big critic of PBC and their model. But even you must admit that PBC 'paydays' for 'Salkas' is one of the roots related to your latest criticism of today's fighters (fighting rare and asking for paydays after being matched only 1 or 2 tough fights).

BTW, for me (whose sources of fights consist of streams, and a Russian and a Chinese sports TV channel), it doesn't matter at all which network is succeeding. I just want competitive fights, best against the best.

upcoming PBC

Awesome cards by the PBC. I know it's still early, but would you share your preliminary takes on the fights?

Cuellar vs Mares: I believe Mares has more left than Darchinyan, who was occasionally troubling (even dropped) Cuellar. Perhaps Mares by MD

Jermall vs Williams: Your boy Williams seems a bit telegraphic and wide with his punches, but Williams looks much more confident than Jermall, so unless your boy gets robbed, Williams by 116-112 with many close rounds.

Badou Jack vs James Degale: I think Degale will find a way to win

Frampton vs Cruz: I think Cruz was able to execute his plan almost perfectly in the first fight, and it still was a close fight... Cruz by decision.

Mikey Garcia vs Zlaticanin: Zlaticanin is a tough, strong dude who keeps coming at you, but has very poor footwork. Garcia, impressively

Thurman vs Danny Garcia: Thurman never impressed me,... Danny is - like you said - a clutch guy; even against elite guys he will be competitive; HOWEVER, I had a dream recently that Danny was KO'd. I had boxing-related dreams only 3 times before, all of which came true, one of them was Tszyu KOing Zab (almost all experts favored Zab). Thurman by KO!

Broner vs Granados: I've only seen Granados once, the Imam fight. It's a perfect matchup for Broner against a guy who never lost convincingly. Broner by wide UD.

However, all of my picks could be wrong, that's what makes these cards awesome.

Cheers from Ulaanbaatar Mongolia,

Amarbayasgalan.

Bread’s Response: Wlad Klitschko is definitely an enigma. He has a scary style of fighting but he’s not scary as far as who he’s willing to fight. Wlad will simply fight anybody. He fights the best available guy consistently. I respect that and in my opinion his mentality puts him in the Hall of Fame.

But I agree with you 100% about Anthony Joshua being all wrong for him. Joshua has rapidly become one of my favorite fighters. I loved his post fight remarks after he won the heavyweight title vs Charles Martin. Mark this down! Joshua will ko Wlad within 3 rounds. Most likely the 1st. He’s too mean, too athletic, too young and his mind is too fresh. Wlad is a great fighter but he’s forever gun shy. I still can’t believe he’s willing to go anywhere near Joshua. This fight will look exactly like Adonis Stevenson vs Chad Dawson.

The PBC is not perfect. But I just don’t blame the PBC for ALL of boxing’s problems when the PBC only came into service in March of 2015. Boxing had its share of problems long before. And for the record most championship level fighters PBC or non PBC fight on the average of 2 fights per/year. And they have been for years now. You make some great points and I like your emails but I want to point out a mistake you just made. You used the Salka comparison that often gets attached to PBC. But Danny Garcia fought Rod Salka in August of 2014. There was no PBC when that fight occurred. It was just a mismatch but not PBC. You see how when people repeat myths often enough they start to believe them without fact checking.

Hi Bread,

1) I think it's worth noticing that there are some big heavyweight fights coming up in next two months...Parker vs Ruiz jr for WBO title, Povetkin vs Stiverne for WBC scalp, Ortiz vs Scott, Duhaupas vs Takam (very underated fight, two great warriors!), Joshua vs Molina, Whyte vs Chisora... How do you see them playing out?

2) What's your opinion on Chris Eubank jr in GGG fight? It may sound crazy, but I think that would be a terrific fight. To me CEJ has the style to gave GGG fits. His workrate is crazy for middleweight division, his chin is rock solid, his punch output is also decent... Could he "outbully the bully"? Is that the way to beat GGG? Who from middleweight division would be stylistically the most difficult for Golovkin ATM?

Cheers from Poland,

Casper

Bread’s Response: Parker, Povetkin, Ortiz, draw, Joshua and Whyte.

I thought Eubank had a chance until he pulled some strange antics in the last negotiations. If he doesn’t believe in himself I can’t believe in him.

Bread,

I have been following you since your days at Boxingtalk, but this is the first time I had a chance to email you. It's nice to get direct insight from a future world champion trainer.

I found it interesting and to be honest a little dumbfounding that John David Jackson first appeared dismissive of Andre Ward's ability to defeat his fighter, Sergey Kovalev.

During their preparation for the fight, I see he switched up his tune and admits that "he's a very intelligent fighter, I didn't realize how intelligent he was until I watched him and studied him."

He even goes on to complement Virgil in a separate interview stating , "I've watched Andre and I've watched Virgil and listen, I've come to have a greater respect for both, fighter and trainer, because they have a unique bond and it's more than just boxing...what he and Virgil have is special."

My question is this, as you studied boxers and their corners over the years, are there some fighters and/or trainers that you feel you might have personally underrated at first but came to respect them more upon closer evaluation? 

JI, Charlotte

Bread’s Response: John David Jackson is one of the best trainers in the world. But his earlier dismissive comments about Andre Ward and Virgil Hunter took me for a loop also. I was really surprised. Ward and Hunter’s accomplishments are unprecedented in the modern era. They are on a 20 year win streak together with an Olympic Gold Medal, Ring Title at 168 and a Super 6 trophy  to boot.

I respect Jackson’s change of hearts. It takes humility to openly change your opinion. But his previous comments still take me a back. Here is why. People may not remember this but Jackson was the head trainer in the corner when Allan Green faced Andre Ward in the Super 6. Green was a red hot puncher and it was Ward’s first title defense. Ward won every single round vs Green. If anyone should know how special the Ward/Hunter tandem is, it should be Jackson who faced them for 12 unsuccessful rounds in 2010.

However I think Jackson’s changed perspective of Ward is a good thing. I think he knows he has to raise his game as a trainer in order to defeat Ward. Ward is more difficult to fight than he looks. His opponents all seem perplexed like they can’t understand why they can’t get anything going against him. The viewing audience may appreciate him but they are not in awe of him because his some of his talents are subtle and hidden. I think we are going to see a helluva fight. Ward is always super focused. But Kovalev seems locked in for this fight also. I saw some tactical things Kovalev was working on and he was on point. This is truly a super fight where the winner is a sure bet Hall of Famer. This could be the biggest fight in lightheavyweight history.

I am never dismissive of any of coach and his success with fighters. If I have underrated anyone it was not for a long period of time. But I can’t think of a tandem that I underrated. I will say when I first saw Andre Ward fight my socks weren’t knocked off. I thought he was an elite talent but I didn’t look at him and say this guy will be a top 5 ever at super middleweight. Which he turned out to be. I also bet against Manny Pacquiao in his fights vs Marco Antonio Barrera, Oscar De La Hoya and Tim Bradley. I have never been more wrong about a great fighter. My goodness I have to laugh at myself.

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