Waddell investment down to the last 82M? OUT of (521M)

[bigdunny1]

Anyone who doesn't think PBC is going to end in disaster is utterly delusional. It has been doomed for failure from the start because it doesn't have a single fighter in the top 10 p4p, nor will it work with one that is. You cannot shut your eyes and pretend that the whole boxing world that isn't affiliated with Al Haymon doesn't exist.

It has made no inroads into changing the boxing landscape, apart from shutting down a bunch of anticipated fights. It's just going through the motions, making a some good fights and some totally illogical fights. A lot of its fighters are getting oddly good paydays, and Haymon too (basically writing himself a check each time )

Haymon screwed over HBO, screwed over Golden Boy, screwed over Showtime, and will screw over this investment firm. The Emperor has no clothes. He used to have a guy called Mayweather one, who was an amazing talent made on HBO, who fought De La Hoya and Hatton and became huge..and then retired.

All the Haymonites put all their faith in a guy who doesn't even talk, who won't even tell us what his model for success is. Why exactly should we trust this guy? He stunk up HBO, he stunk up Showtime, and he's made a mediocre start to network TV. You guys are so delusional, it's not even funny.

And when it all comes crashing down like it inevitably does, you have to hope that he hasn't permanently ****ed up boxing.

Anyone with 2 brain cells can see the writing is on the wall for PBC. The amount of shows they have scheduled are at a all time low, the fights they do have contain far less star power then what they had just 6 months ago. Numerous reports that the losses in 2015 are in the hundreds of millions. Reports for almost every PBC event about not being able to sell tickets and being forced to give mass amounts away for free. The TV ratings for every network that pbc has aired on are weak and trending down just compare the ratings in the first half of last year to the second half for that same network. PBC debuted on FOX 33% less ratings then what they debuted on NBC yet idiots want to tell you PBC is growing then why are the ratings going down? The hedge fund is almost out of money. And the two biggest announced pbc fights are no longer pbc brand fights not out of design both sent to showtime to have them pay the fighter purses to try and limit the losses pbc incurs. PBC has been hit with two hundred mil plus lawsuits questioning whether any of this is even legal. Got to hand it to haymon fan boys trying their hardest to spin this as PBC is doing just "fine". LMAO

[-Hyperion-]

Anyone who wanted Boxing back on network TV needed only to copy the Mexican resurgence of boxing since it's comeback to free TV. Haymon has overinflated the US market and overflooded the airwaves with no local attractions.

In Mexico, they had ONE recognisable star as the lynchpin(Jorge Arce), in addition, they featured young local attractions in their hometown, and cheap world class fights from the lower weightclasses(guaranteed entertainment, cheap airing fees) on a fixed weekly schedule in the second biggest network in the country. As the ratings grew, so did the quality of the international fights they started airing. The biggest network had to respond to the demand and air boxing on their network as well to compete. Both networks started gathering more local attractions and airing every big international fight on slight tape delay. Developing rising stars(Canelo/Chavez Jr). The mexican american market for boxing in the US was basically developed by proxy because of the Mexican resurgance and word of mouth, which is what explains Canelo's rise in the american market...

Haymon could be doing way better with all the resources he wastes. If the african american market is not ready to be exploited, move on, go with local attractions regardless of race, and once the market is healthy come back to prioritising his racial agenda once the demand for boxing in the urban areas catches up, if his agenda is so important to him. Rushing it is only gonna be worse for him if none of the networks bite on his bluff.

[HeroBando]

Anyone who wanted Boxing back on network TV needed only to copy the Mexican resurgence of boxing since it's comeback to free TV. Haymon has overinflated the US market and overflooded the airwaves with no local attractions.

In Mexico, they had ONE recognisable star as the lynchpin(Jorge Arce), in addition, they featured young local attractions in their hometown, and cheap world class fights from the lower weightclasses(guaranteed entertainment, cheap airing fees) on a fixed weekly schedule in the second biggest network in the country. As the ratings grew, so did the quality of the international fights they started airing. The biggest network had to respond to the demand and air boxing on their network as well to compete. Both networks started gathering more local attractions and airing every big international fight on slight tape delay. Developing rising stars(Canelo/Chavez Jr). The mexican american market for boxing in the US was basically developed by proxy because of the Mexican resurgance and word of mouth, which is what explains Canelo's rise in the american market...

Haymon could be doing way better with all the resources he wastes. If the african american market is not ready to be exploited, move on, go with local attractions regardless of race, and once the market is healthy come back to prioritising his racial agenda once the demand for boxing in the urban areas catches up, if his agenda is so important to him. Rushing it is only gonna be worse for him if none of the networks bite on his bluff.

I get what you're saying, but boxing is much more entrenched in Mexico. If it wasn't for Mex Americans, boxing would be dead in the States, and that's been the case way before Canelo. Isn't it pretty much their national sport? Soccer must be more popular, but they aren't near as successful

[Eff Pandas]

The television time buys were the major cost... They paid tens of millions to buy airtime.. Thats where the majority of the money has been spent..
Now they just have purse and such to pay for, which are a lot cheaper.

Tend to assume this to be correct. I'd love to see a real breakdown of the costs of PBC.

My attempt:
-The first deal, the NBC one allegedly cost around $20M
-The venue/production costs for each event, on average, is supposedly $1M. There have been around 40-50 shows last I checked hence $40M-$50M spent on production (although I have heard the networks + PBC split those costs due to the nature of their time buy agreement, which isn't a 100% straight time buy, so this could be lower).
-I think its a high estimate to say that they spend $1.5M in purses for each show on average, people only talk about the Lara + Santa Cruz or random fights where the headliner got $1M+ or whatever but there are a ton of shows where no headliner got 7 digits, thus we'd be maxing out at between $60M-$75M there.
-then we got all the other time buys, espn, fox, cbs, spike, bounce & abc which I've heard little about the costs of. Lets just say thats $40M-$50M total.

So I got $160M-$195M spent so far without thinking too much about this & perhaps missing some expenses in my 100% amateur guessimate about this. I'm not sure if court costs or Oscar & that Rances Barthelemy promoter settlements coming into play here. Supposedly the Oscar buyout was $90M-ish. And I'm positive there are daily operation costs & employees getting paid that would add to the expenses. I'd also add PBC gots to be getting paid something cuz they do have advertisements & sponsors now.

[Eff Pandas]

Anyone who wanted Boxing back on network TV needed only to copy the Mexican resurgence of boxing since it's comeback to free TV. Haymon has overinflated the US market and overflooded the airwaves with no local attractions.

In Mexico, they had ONE recognisable star as the lynchpin(Jorge Arce), in addition, they featured young local attractions in their hometown, and cheap world class fights from the lower weightclasses(guaranteed entertainment, cheap airing fees) on a fixed weekly schedule in the second biggest network in the country. As the ratings grew, so did the quality of the international fights they started airing. The biggest network had to respond to the demand and air boxing on their network as well to compete. Both networks started gathering more local attractions and airing every big international fight on slight tape delay. Developing rising stars(Canelo/Chavez Jr). The mexican american market for boxing in the US was basically developed by proxy because of the Mexican resurgance and word of mouth, which is what explains Canelo's rise in the american market...

Haymon could be doing way better with all the resources he wastes. If the african american market is not ready to be exploited, move on, go with local attractions regardless of race, and once the market is healthy come back to prioritising his racial agenda once the demand for boxing in the urban areas catches up, if his agenda is so important to him. Rushing it is only gonna be worse for him if none of the networks bite on his bluff.

Interesting situation with the Mexico stuff. Hadn't heard about that.

And great point with the lacking of building local attractions directly from the start & not really focusing on THAT much now. I feel that one problem with the PBC model might be, and this is my assumption, is that promoters have little reason to promote hard for their PBC shows cuz they are payed a flat fee by PBC. DiBella, Ellerbe or Yvon Michel got little reason to go hard with promotion cuz they are likely getting paid already & if 10 people or 10k people show up it doesn't make a difference to them or little difference anyway.

So this model might have flaws that people haven't fully considered while these promoters being legit promoters & no violation of the MAA going on. When the details of the TR/Oscar lawsuit discovery come out it should be interesting to read about what exactly is going on between the fighters, the promoters & Haymon & how exactly everyone is being paid.

[-Hyperion-]

I get what you're saying, but boxing is much more entrenched in Mexico. If it wasn't for Mex Americans, boxing would be dead in the States, and that's been the case way before Canelo. Isn't it pretty much their national sport? Soccer must be more popular, but they aren't near as successful

Boxing had taken a huge hit in popularity since JC Chavez exited his prime and the networks took boxing off free tv.....which is why Barrera and Morales were bigger stars in the US than in Mexico. By about 2006, a network decided to risk it and get it back on free tv, but they were patient. Starting with 2-4 million viewers in late 2005, and now Marquez and Canelo do 30 million.......that's huge growth. Canelo in the early 00's would sell 300000 PPV tops....he just sold 1000000. Oscar should thank Mexico.

[HeroBando]

Anyone who doesn't think PBC is going to end in disaster is utterly delusional. It has been doomed for failure from the start because it doesn't have a single fighter in the top 10 p4p, nor will it work with one that is. You cannot shut your eyes and pretend that the whole boxing world that isn't affiliated with Al Haymon doesn't exist.

It has made no inroads into changing the boxing landscape, apart from shutting down a bunch of anticipated fights. It's just going through the motions, making a some good fights and some totally illogical fights. A lot of its fighters are getting oddly good paydays, and Haymon too (basically writing himself a check each time )

Haymon screwed over HBO, screwed over Golden Boy, screwed over Showtime, and will screw over this investment firm. The Emperor has no clothes. He used to have a guy called Mayweather one, who was an amazing talent made on HBO, who fought De La Hoya and Hatton and became huge..and then retired.

All the Haymonites put all their faith in a guy who doesn't even talk, who won't even tell us what his model for success is. Why exactly should we trust this guy? He stunk up HBO, he stunk up Showtime, and he's made a mediocre start to network TV. You guys are so delusional, it's not even funny.

And when it all comes crashing down like it inevitably does, you have to hope that he hasn't permanently ****ed up boxing.

This is the main thing. It's not "no harm in trying" esp when you go about it like this. The recent Showtime ratings are shocking, how long do you keep paying millions for FNF ratings

[-Kev-]

JakeNDaBox is still waiting on his apology from you.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Boxing/comm...onovan/cvh5pl3

I do not work for PBC, for the record. Steve Farhood normally covers PBC on NBC shows. He fell ill midweek and unable to make the trip and asked me to fill in on short notice, since he knew I only live 2 1/2 hrs from Birmingham and was already in town to originally cover the show for BoxingScene.com (my full-time employer). I provided pre-fight coverage for Top Rank's UniMas card which ran that same night. The following morning, I covered Kazuto Ioka's title defense via TV (TyC Sports). You want to question my ethics, that's your right to do so. Would greatly appreciate you not making stuff up and then attempting to publicly pass it off as fact. Thank you.

He seems very obnoxious, and very unprofessional for a lawyer. From what I know of here in America, and I could be wrong, but jobs for lawyers are very poor. According to the Bureau of Labor Stats, lawyer job outlook will be at 6% openings from 2014 to 2024. So that could explain why he is on Reddit bashing other people instead of working on some case.

[SterlingStained]

Anyone who doesn't think PBC is going to end in disaster is utterly delusional. It has been doomed for failure from the start because it doesn't have a single fighter in the top 10 p4p, nor will it work with one that is. You cannot shut your eyes and pretend that the whole boxing world that isn't affiliated with Al Haymon doesn't exist.

It has made no inroads into changing the boxing landscape, apart from shutting down a bunch of anticipated fights. It's just going through the motions, making a some good fights and some totally illogical fights. A lot of its fighters are getting oddly good paydays, and Haymon too (basically writing himself a check each time )

Haymon screwed over HBO, screwed over Golden Boy, screwed over Showtime, and will screw over this investment firm. The Emperor has no clothes. He used to have a guy called Mayweather one, who was an amazing talent made on HBO, who fought De La Hoya and Hatton and became huge..and then retired.

All the Haymonites put all their faith in a guy who doesn't even talk, who won't even tell us what his model for success is. Why exactly should we trust this guy? He stunk up HBO, he stunk up Showtime, and he's made a mediocre start to network TV. You guys are so delusional, it's not even funny.

And when it all comes crashing down like it inevitably does, you have to hope that he hasn't permanently ****ed up boxing.

Anyone with 2 brain cells can see the writing is on the wall for PBC. The amount of shows they have scheduled are at a all time low, the fights they do have contain far less star power then what they had just 6 months ago. Numerous reports that the losses in 2015 are in the hundreds of millions. Reports for almost every PBC event about not being able to sell tickets and being forced to give mass amounts away for free. The TV ratings for every network that pbc has aired on are weak and trending down just compare the ratings in the first half of last year to the second half for that same network. PBC debuted on FOX 33% less ratings then what they debuted on NBC yet idiots want to tell you PBC is growing then why are the ratings going down? The hedge fund is almost out of money. And the two biggest announced pbc fights are no longer pbc brand fights not out of design both sent to showtime to have them pay the fighter purses to try and limit the losses pbc incurs. PBC has been hit with two hundred mil plus lawsuits questioning whether any of this is even legal. Got to hand it to haymon fan boys trying their hardest to spin this as PBC is doing just "fine". LMAO

Anyone who wanted Boxing back on network TV needed only to copy the Mexican resurgence of boxing since it's comeback to free TV. Haymon has overinflated the US market and overflooded the airwaves with no local attractions.

In Mexico, they had ONE recognisable star as the lynchpin(Jorge Arce), in addition, they featured young local attractions in their hometown, and cheap world class fights from the lower weightclasses(guaranteed entertainment, cheap airing fees) on a fixed weekly schedule in the second biggest network in the country. As the ratings grew, so did the quality of the international fights they started airing. The biggest network had to respond to the demand and air boxing on their network as well to compete. Both networks started gathering more local attractions and airing every big international fight on slight tape delay. Developing rising stars(Canelo/Chavez Jr). The mexican american market for boxing in the US was basically developed by proxy because of the Mexican resurgance and word of mouth, which is what explains Canelo's rise in the american market...

Haymon could be doing way better with all the resources he wastes. If the african american market is not ready to be exploited, move on, go with local attractions regardless of race, and once the market is healthy come back to prioritising his racial agenda once the demand for boxing in the urban areas catches up, if his agenda is so important to him. Rushing it is only gonna be worse for him if none of the networks bite on his bluff.

top notch posts.

[HeroBando]

Boxing had taken a huge hit in popularity since JC Chavez exited his prime and the networks took boxing off free tv.....which is why Barrera and Morales were bigger stars in the US than in Mexico. By about 2006, a network decided to risk it and get it back on free tv, but they were patient. Starting with 2-4 million viewers in late 2005, and now Marquez and Canelo do 30 million.......that's huge growth. Canelo in the early 00's would sell 300000 PPV tops....he just sold 1000000. Oscar should thank Mexico.

Thanks again for the quality info. Still even from those low point numbers you can tell it'sa more fertile soil for boxing. 3m is 7m prorated, which are dream figures in the US