Is Wlad an All Time Great Heavyweight?

[GJC]

Don't bet your MONEY on Liston vs Wlad. Bet your family members' LIVES on it. Maybe that will change your decision.

A ****** childish bet but no it wouldn't make me change my decision. If it was who would you pick out of the two of them I'd go with Liston any day and twice on a Sunday.
And coming out with your median weight **** will not change my mind in the slightest.
Wlad is a good fighter might well make peoples top 20 ATG, settle for that its not that bad.

[GJC]

Possible vit****s alt.

What is it with all these id's, its like people are suffering from Schizophrenia.
I'll be a raging bigot with this id and then include a few black boxers to show i'm not racist with this id etc.
Must say it is very strange and irritating.

[knn]

Wlad is a good fighter might well make peoples top 20 ATG, settle for that its not that bad.

Name the ones above Wlad. But please only those who have at least 20 heavyweight fights (= 200+ opponents).

Thus no Joe Louis, no Marciano and no Ezzard Charles please.

I don't think that 20x heavyweight fights is too much to ask for

[ßringer]

I try not to punish any fighter for having inherited a ****ty division.

I really don't feel right commenting on this while Wlad is still active in the ring.

So I withold any opinion on the matter until his career is over and I can look back on it all as a collective whole.

If he keeps up what he's doing, and gets more title defenses under his belt, and continues to dominate his opponets ; I don't think there's any question that he makes the list of "All Time Heavyweight Greats".

However I would not rank him in the top 10, and probably somewhere in the top 20.

It's through no fault of his own ; it's just that historically, he has some serious competition jocking with him for those 11-20 spots.

[knn]

I try not to punish any fighter for having inherited a ****ty division.

The "****ty division" was in the 70ies when a featherfisted one-eyed dwarf was world champ. When a guy with Parkinson was a world champ. When a 6-0 bum was a world champ. When Foreman was fighting for the world title against Roman (196lbs, a 53-26 bum).

There is nothing remotely as bad nowadays.

[Phirsole]

Wladimir

I guess it is moot to discuss it before his career is over. And it's far from over, if I can judge that by sheer fitness, speed, and skill. I think, Vitali is beyond his prime, while Wlad is in his prime right now. It is simply not his fault that his competition is not for ATG-competition.

If he defends his titles against Arreola, Haye, Dimitrenko, Valuev, Povetkin, he'll be in the Hall of Fame, perhaps an ATG.

No matter what you say about the TOP 20 ATG, every single one would have problems defeating Wlad. I don't say they would not manage it, but he would be a tough and rather difficult opponent. Many of the ATG were FAST enough to get inside his Jabberwockee defence, and brutalize his face. Those with the big punches would knock him out for sure. But others were not, and a 12-round fight with the constant left jab in the mouth erodes everybodies stamina.

[GJC]

Name the ones above Wlad. But please only those who have at least 20 heavyweight fights (= 200+ opponents).

Thus no Joe Louis, no Marciano and no Ezzard Charles please.

I don't think that 20x heavyweight fights is too much to ask for

Do they have to be white too? Mainly fight in Germany? How limiting do you want this?
This is where you go wrong in your arguments, you say you use facts but you are selective.
When Ali fought Frazier in 1971 was it titled as being for the Heavyweight Championship or was it listed as for the Heavyweight Championship until obviously bigger guys come along in which case we'll retrospectively call it for The Cruiserweight title?
I'm not as scientific as you I've just been watching boxing for 60 years, obviously just killing time until Wlad came along!
I just kind of count heavyweights as people who have fought heavyweight bouts as named by the various sanctioning bodies through history.
Its not scientific but it works for me!

[GJC]

The "****ty division" was in the 70ies when a featherfisted one-eyed dwarf was world champ. When a guy with Parkinson was a world champ. When a 6-0 bum was a world champ. When Foreman was fighting for the world title against Ribalta (196lbs, a 53-26 bum).

There is nothing remotely bad nowadays.

Well whatever you think, a lot of boxing fans who were not even born when they last fought know of and have watched Ali, Frazier etc.
I doubt whether much will be said about Wlad and Chaguev 30 years later.

[GJC]

When Foreman was fighting for the world title against Ribalta (196lbs, a 53-26 bum).

There is nothing remotely bad nowadays.

I assume you mean Jose Roman not Ribalta? I know you like to pick up others when they quote or spell a name wrong but I wont.
You think Chaguev is a good fighter, would beat Ali, Foreman, Frazier etc?

[Jim Jeffries]

Because he talks bollocks?
Or would you be arguing against yourself??

So first I am Tunney and now I am Knn? Sorry bud, I thought you were smarter than that. Biased perhaps, agenda driven perhaps, but ****** is not something I would've called you.

I am curious how you give ZERO credit for Rahman and Vitali for their performances against Lewis (given his weight at the time,) but give full credit to Lennox for his win over David Tua. You then go on to use this fight where Tua supposedly hit Lennox with multiple clean left hooks, as proof that that version of Tua beats the current (tighter defensed) Wlad. This fat (245,) bloated, out of shape version of Tua, even. Hilarious.

Anyway, the answer to this thread is yes, he's just not a top 10 ATG HW, yet. But that is certainly something that is achievable for him, if he continues to do what he's doing for another 3 or 4 years.