Eddie Hearn, promoter for IBF, WBO, WBA, IBO heavyweight champion Anthony Joshua, fully admits that he never thought Tyson Fury would ever reach the very top of the division.
Fury shocked the world when he traveled to Germany to upset Wladimir Klitschko for the unified crown in November of 2015.
In the aftermath, Fury vanished from the sport as he battled depression and substance abuse issues.
It wasn't until the end of 2017 when Fury began to seriously train, as he put on a tremendous amount of weight during the extended layoff.
He resumed his career in mid-2018 - and in February 2020 he stopped undefeated Deontay Wilder in seven rounds to capture the WBC heavyweight title.
At the moment, Fury's handlers are in deep negotiations with Hearn to finalize a two-fight agreement with Joshua.
The first of their two meetings would land on a date in June or July - with the rematch to take place before the end of the year.
And while Hearn gives Fury a lot of credit for clawing his way to the top - he doesn't see him being victorious against Joshua.
"I can't lie to you. I didn't think that Fury would get to this level. He's completely proved me and everybody wrong. Nobody gave him a chance against Klitschko, he beat him. I thought he'd get knocked out by Wilder and beat him, twice, so he deserves massive credit," Hearn told The Express.
"But I don't think he beats Anthony Joshua. I think the way that it's played out has been incredible. It's not just the biggest fight in boxing, by the time it comes around it will be the biggest fight of all time."