marciano versus Moore a case study

[billeau2]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_pPfPUQopfg

first off I want to thank my dear friend Juggy for giving me the incentive to look at this fight again....it is one of my favorite fights for so many reasons.

First off the intensity, the skill, and the ebb and flow...One can still see traces of Moore at his cagiest and we see marciano, as I explained to Juggy, exploite skill sets that, WHILE not his primary tools, are used in such a way to demonstrate that marciano had range. Marciano would need this range to beat Moore and that is what makes this fight so compelling.

When the fight starts marciano does not simply go after Archie. he perhaps realizes that: a) One cannot walk Moore down, Moore is too skilled. marciano also perhaps realizes that Moore does not have such a reach advantage. marciano starts slipping Moore's punches. At this point marciano realizes he cannot outbox Moore...he even gets dropped in a flash knockdown. Marciano employs, to good effect a feint.

So marciano is slipping and feinting, probably assuming that he will wear Archie down...and when he does get inside we see combos, body shots and overhand shots.

meanwhile Moore is scoring. he is backing off Marciano enough to create space, because he is off his back foot he is able to react to marciano and score with rights and jabs. the interplay between marciano's well placed feints and slips and Moore's reaction show a range of fighting skills. While Marciano is no manny pacman with the slips he manages to keep Moore at bay, and sure enough eventually the Mongoose, in the twilight of his career does tire, but not before showing some incredible resolve!

My point is that the skills shown in this fight when it is deconstructed demonstrate that both guys had skill sets that when needed to be utilized are there for them. marciano not known as a boxer shows he can box to try to create opportunities...can one imagine David Haye, for example, being able to deviate from his ambush tactics to counter punch an opponent? I can't. Can one imagine Vlad Klitschko using mobility and evasive actions?

Fighters had long apprecnticeships in the gyms and learned all the skills. Sure the rock was most happy slugging away, but when strategy called for it, these guys had the goods, the chops to use many skills. This fight demonstrates this....Archie Moore, one of the most skilled fighters ever shows incredible lateral movement when he avoids Marciano coming on.

So what do you guys think? this is one of my faves.

[BKM-2010]

Nice little review, good read. Will you be making more of these? If so, I'd suggest the Marciano/Charles fights.

[billeau2]

Nice little review, good read. Will you be making more of these? If so, I'd suggest the Marciano/Charles fights.

This fight....it does not do the cincinnati lad justice, but then again, if Moore had been younger i think he takes the rock. Ditto for Charles, incredible fighter.

[The Old LefHook]

Even when he has him tired and hurt, it is all Rocky can do to lay a glove on Moore. Was Rocky that inaccurate, or Archie that slippery?

As Bilbo points out, Rocky had his own slipperiness, often overlooked. He was no James Toney, but he definitely had some moves that had to be practiced. Rocky never looked fashionably stylish executing the moves he practiced, but the moves did work.

As this fight winds down, Marciano redefines the word "windmill."

[Anthony342]

Yeah and buzz saw.

[billeau2]

Even when he has him tired and hurt, it is all Rocky can do to lay a glove on Moore. Was Rocky that inaccurate, or Archie that slippery?

As Bilbo points out, Rocky had his own slipperiness, often overlooked. He was no James Toney, but he definitely had some moves that had to be practiced. Rocky never looked fashionably stylish executing the moves he practiced, but the moves did work.

As this fight winds down, Marciano redefines the word "windmill."

Ok heres an interesting thing: One may remember Migel Cotto when he fought Mosley started to box in the later rounds. I always liked Cotto and he showed that he was well rounded. He did this later in the fight though, after he threw his best, ate his proverbial meat and potatoes, and had settled into a comfortable margin. A lot of people critisized Cotto for this but it made sense to me. Why can't a slugger have the skills to box? Skills are skills and its part of the game.

but Marciano seemed to think he needed to establish his boxing skills against Moore. by using feints and a pawing jab marciano had some success. Now if I am Rocky's trainer it makes sense because a fresh Archie Moore can do more that evade marciano. So marciano even gets dropped once but is cautious. By the time Marciano opens up Moore is tired and can do little more that evade him. yes Moore is that slippery and I believe that if Marciano goes after him Pell mell from round one, in a distant universe somewhere else, that is the Rock's one loss!

Point being Marciano was a smart fighter, or at least his corner was.

[Anthony342]

Speaking of Cotto, what the hell happened to him? Everything with him now is delaying the fights with best opponents and catch weights. I prefer the Cotto that fought the best at their best. He must be losing some respect among hardcore fans these days. If this is how he is at middle, then he should just stick with 154 or even welterweight. Plus catch weights like this should be illegal these days. They should only happen if it's two fighters at different weights meeting in the middle for a super fight.

[billeau2]

Speaking of Cotto, what the hell happened to him? Everything with him now is delaying the fights with best opponents and catch weights. I prefer the Cotto that fought the best at their best. He must be losing some respect among hardcore fans these days. If this is how he is at middle, then he should just stick with 154 or even welterweight. Plus catch weights should like this should be illegal these days. They should only happen if it's two fighters at different weights meeting in the middle for a super fight.

Well...he felt that pac set him up with that fight at catchweight, I guess he felt if you cant beat em join em.

[Anthony342]

But by pulling this crap, he doesn't deserve the lineal middleweight title.

[billeau2]

But by pulling this crap, he doesn't deserve the lineal middleweight title.

Titles and judges decisions are two categories I seldom look at to evaluate the merits of a fighter. Glencoffe Johnson has lost at least 3 fights he should have been given the nod in... Bronner has been declared victorious when he lost the fight. Titles are much the same frankly. But I certainly agree!