Do heavier modern heavyweights hit harder than lighter heavyweights from the 80's

[MaxT]

Especially about Valuev. I never heard that.
.

You know why?

Because its bul****.Total bul****. Somebody just made a diagnosis by photograth.

Valuev never have any tipical gigantism stuff like pituitary gland tumor, he was just big (oveproduction of HGH doe to some genetic reason, thats happen - look at Kevin Peter Hall family).

Thats why he is pretty healfy and fast for the man of his size (much like Sammy Shilt).

His only health problem was with knees. But many boxers ***** up their knees without being so big.

[Rusty Tromboni]

Giagantism...Andre the Giant also and the robot in this film

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K6iF5sINVns

It's indisputable he's a giant. No one ever talks about to the athelticism which QR was referencing. I haven't heard it/seen it. ANd Boxing is the world's biggest rumor-mill. But it's an interesting insight, which might be true.

Jake the Snake, or one of those guys, was on the Rogan Podcast... he similarly said a young Andre used to do backflips off the ring post. Back when no one was doing that.

- -Mercer just got BTFO, so interviewing postmortem fighters ain't a reliable indicator of what they actually know.

Pt being that Mercer took it to Lewis big time. LL also sold his IBF and WBA to Byrd and Ruiz thru DKing for millions, a good biz decision maybe, but not legacy wise.

Nobody of that generation wanted the Ks.

This is proof that Boxer's will say anything. It's easy to commend a guy whom you beat, and indirectly ciriticize a guy who beat you.

I really believe RObinson when he says Artie Levine hit harder than anyone else. Like you, I am incredulous when Mercer says Morrison hit harder than Lewis and Klitchko.

The thing is, Morrison was on the juice. It tends to be that one-punch power is the thing that benfits most from anabolicsteroids. Look at the dudes in K1 or MMA. I think Wilder has also benefited from steroid abuse similarly. Like Morrison, he doesn't have much to go on beyond a punch. He just happens to punch MUCH harder.

You know why?

Because its bul****.Total bul****. Somebody just made a diagnosis by photograth.

Valuev never have any tipical gigantism stuff like pituitary gland tumor, he was just big (oveproduction of HGH doe to some genetic reason, thats happen - look at Kevin Peter Hall family).

Thats why he is pretty healfy and fast for the man of his size (much like Sammy Shilt).

His only health problem was with knees. But many boxers ***** up their knees without being so big.

No, the dude clearly has giantism. He might have taken something which triggered it. But it's a disease affecting that guy.

[Dempsey19]

I've heard people say that Lewis would've been seen as some sort of a giant in Marciano's time yet the other day I was watching a tv show set in the 50s and a girl was talking about her perfect husband- 6'4" and blonde. Why would the perfect guy be some sort of a freakishly large giant ? In the 1930s Clark Gable was king- he was not a small man at 6'2", yet he hardly seemed especially tall now did he ? In the 60s we had Bill Russel and Wilt Chamberlain both extremely tall yet athletic men. There have always been tall people, they are not a new invention nor are they only the product of genetic abnormalities like Acromegaly.

In the end of the day, Buddy Baer was bigger than any modern top heavyweight and by all accounts he was very skilled and hit hard yet that didn't stop him from getting KOed in 1 by little Joe Louis. Even his physically smaller and less polished brother was a better fighter than him.

Shavers wasn't a giant at 6' (Probably more like 5'10") and as little as 202 pounds and Mike Tyson would be giving up 40 pounds to a modern superheavy. Tell me,Who punches harder ?

[joe strong]

- -Mercer just got BTFO, so interviewing postmortem fighters ain't a reliable indicator of what they actually know.

Pt being that Mercer took it to Lewis big time. LL also sold his IBF and WBA to Byrd and Ruiz thru DKing for millions, a good biz decision maybe, but not legacy wise.

Nobody of that generation wanted the Ks.

I’m sorry but I disagree. You are entitled to your opinion.

[QueensburyRules]

I’m sorry but I disagree. You are entitled to your opinion.

- -My opinion is factually based that you could not refute.

In the end the Ks made Americans primarily come to them because the US had become so dumbed down that heavywts couldn't make any money otherwise.

[MaxT]

Boxing technically ain't aerobic because of the 1 min rest period between rds any more than it's a strength contest.

Boxing is mostly aerobic even without intervals.
You don't have to trow puches all the time, expecially in profeccial contest. Few punches- rest - few punches -rest. No permanent fatique like in sprint or 400/800 m running.
Yes, you may make you boxing anaerobic by trowing series of haymakers on full force, but in will not last long: nowbody can survive maximum power / maximum frequency puching even for a minute. In real life higher the power of pouches, fewer they are, and if trow many puches, they power will be redused.
How aerobic your boxing will be heavily depends on your stile.
Guys like Tyson Fury, or old Larry Holmes fought in nearly 100% aerobic way. Real Tyson work mostly like sprinter - he burn his energy without chanses to recovery during the fight.

And this notion that you have to have a high protein diet while eschewing aerobic training to gain muscle mass I have personally disproved. Maybe in general, but definitely not for me and many others.

The is some limit to amount of weight you can get and keep. High callories intake and high protein diet can set that limit somewhat higher.

So, if you a naturaly big guy and have tipical newbie gain of 8-10 kg of lean mass you don't need any additional proteins.

But if you were (before weights and roids) skinny and (thank to juice) get 15, 20 or more killorgams of muscle you have to eat a lot of protein, otherwise you gonna shrink. A lot of modern fighters (more in MMA, but in boxing too) obviosly are/were on roids

Most jabs are arm punches and acknowledged as the most effective punch for obvious reasons. The misguided notion that you have to torque or jump into every punch is silly putty.

I aware of what jab is. I'm just saying thats Valuev log-like jab have o power of a powerpunchs while its an armpuch and still reasonably fast.

And don't forget - MOST jabs. Power jabs a pretty useful thing, if you can trow then.
Kovalev KOs guys with long jab-like hooks.
Mercer have extreemely hard jab on comming opponent.
Rahman have a very good jab with a step.
Liston's or Louis jab was clearly a powershot.
Those jabs are not armpunches, like a Larry Holmes or Pulev best punch.
And Valuev jab is crearly more powerful than thouse of Holmes and Pulev. Slowbut heavy. If its lands often, you in trouble.

When you are big you may just trow fist and hit a target with a power wich for a small man require far more commitment. Many big guys (like V.Klitchko, Grant, Dimitrenko) unable to trew real KOs blow, but due to size thay can beat to submission almost anybody with armpunches.

If Tyson Fury was average heavyweight (188-193, 105 kg) he will be compleatly pillow-fisted. His size allow him to concentracte on speed and still do some damage.

Every boxer can be "boxer" (concentrate ion defence, movements and speed of puches) and a "fighter'" (concentrate on atack and power). Even Forman was much faster when he chose a boxer role (see his exibitions).

Valuev was quite quick in his Youth. Contender Ice John Scully called him the fastest big man he'd ever seen. He slowed down as he aged because of his growth condition that required retirement and surgery to save his life.

Speed is relative. Valuev is fast for his size, about the same speed that tipical guys near 2m have. But he is wat bigger.

In his youth Valuev train very differently. He rans and was lighgter then in his later years. Under Gabrielian he never ran, to keep hus knee intact.

[joe strong]

- -My opinion is factually based that you could not refute.

In the end the Ks made Americans primarily come to them because the US had become so dumbed down that heavywts couldn't make any money otherwise.

You are talking in the post Lennox era. Sure I don't disagree with that but prior to that there was big money in HW boxing in the US. I'm talking 1989-2003. After that the division went on a huge nose dive. 2006 is when the Klitschko era of dominance started & the divison was really void of legit contenders for a decade. Guys like Danny Williams, Sosnowski, Mormeck, Pianeta, Kevin Johnson, Charr, Wach, Owen Beck (Valuev Defence), Sanders (Only got his shot because of his destruction of Wladimir), Okello (Maskaev defence), Carl Drumond & Matt Skelton (Both Chagaev defences) were getting title shots. Alex Leapai & Juan Carlos Gomez getting shots for wins over Boytsov, Samil Sam & 43 year old Oliver McCall. Wach beat Ty Fields FFS to earn his shot. I can see why Thompson, Chambers & Arreola went to europe to fight the Kbros. Who could draw a crowd outside the KBros? Mormeck got his shot only because of the french support he could generate to help Wladimir line his pockets even more than he already could but he was hardly a credible opponent at that stage. My era started in the late 80s. The 90s were awesome because everyone fought each other to get in position for a shot at one of the big 3 (Tyson, Holyfield or Lennox). Nobody fights each other anymore & so many fighters decline an eliminator nowadays. HW boxing has never been the same since Lennox retired. The division is slowly starting to pick up again but there are still too many fights out there that are not being made. Nobody taking big risks anymore.

[QueensburyRules]

You are talking in the post Lennox era. Sure I don't disagree with that but prior to that there was big money in HW boxing in the US. I'm talking 1989-2003. After that the division went on a huge nose dive. 2006 is when the Klitschko era of dominance started & the divison was really void of legit contenders for a decade. Guys like Danny Williams, Sosnowski, Mormeck, Pianeta, Kevin Johnson, Charr, Wach, Owen Beck (Valuev Defence), Sanders (Only got his shot because of his destruction of Wladimir), Okello (Maskaev defence), Carl Drumond & Matt Skelton (Both Chagaev defences) were getting title shots. Alex Leapai & Juan Carlos Gomez getting shots for wins over Boytsov, Samil Sam & 43 year old Oliver McCall. Wach beat Ty Fields FFS to earn his shot. I can see why Thompson, Chambers & Arreola went to europe to fight the Kbros. Who could draw a crowd outside the KBros? Mormeck got his shot only because of the french support he could generate to help Wladimir line his pockets even more than he already could but he was hardly a credible opponent at that stage. My era started in the late 80s. The 90s were awesome because everyone fought each other to get in position for a shot at one of the big 3 (Tyson, Holyfield or Lennox). Nobody fights each other anymore & so many fighters decline an eliminator nowadays. HW boxing has never been the same since Lennox retired. The division is slowly starting to pick up again but there are still too many fights out there that are not being made. Nobody taking big risks anymore.

- -Lennox the Lion went out like a lamb ducking his most lucrative bout, the Vitali rematch and that days before he was due to be stripped of his last belt.

K era began in 1999 when Vitali first appeared in Ring rankings as #1 shortly followed by Wlad. Vitali won 3 civil suits vs Lewie before becoming an "emergency" replacement for Lewie who'd been in training for over two months.

[Rusty Tromboni]

You are talking in the post Lennox era. Sure I don't disagree with that but prior to that there was big money in HW boxing in the US. I'm talking 1989-2003. After that the division went on a huge nose dive. 2006 is when the Klitschko era of dominance started & the divison was really void of legit contenders for a decade. Guys like Danny Williams, Sosnowski, Mormeck, Pianeta, Kevin Johnson, Charr, Wach, Owen Beck (Valuev Defence), Sanders (Only got his shot because of his destruction of Wladimir), Okello (Maskaev defence), Carl Drumond & Matt Skelton (Both Chagaev defences) were getting title shots. Alex Leapai & Juan Carlos Gomez getting shots for wins over Boytsov, Samil Sam & 43 year old Oliver McCall. Wach beat Ty Fields FFS to earn his shot. I can see why Thompson, Chambers & Arreola went to europe to fight the Kbros. Who could draw a crowd outside the KBros? Mormeck got his shot only because of the french support he could generate to help Wladimir line his pockets even more than he already could but he was hardly a credible opponent at that stage. My era started in the late 80s. The 90s were awesome because everyone fought each other to get in position for a shot at one of the big 3 (Tyson, Holyfield or Lennox). Nobody fights each other anymore & so many fighters decline an eliminator nowadays. HW boxing has never been the same since Lennox retired. The division is slowly starting to pick up again but there are still too many fights out there that are not being made. Nobody taking big risks anymore.

How do you expect people to take you seriously if you can't even take yourself seriously.


What fighter pre-Klitchko era do you really think would fare better than anyone the Klitchkos actually fought?


The preceding era had more drama, but to argue the more famous fighters were actually better is a huge stretch. That's like saying Rocky graziano was the best Ray Robinson fought. Or Ward, gatti and De La Hoya are ATG Welterweights.

[Rusty Tromboni]

When you are big you may just trow fist and hit a target with a power wich for a small man require far more commitment. Many big guys (like V.Klitchko, Grant, Dimitrenko) unable to trew real KOs blow, but due to size thay can beat to submission almost anybody with armpunches.

If Tyson Fury was average heavyweight (188-193, 105 kg) he will be compleatly pillow-fisted. His size allow him to concentracte on speed and still do some damage. .

That's a good point.

The bigger you are, the clumsier you get. You also have less wind.

Fury's incredible in that he's such a big man whose also lythe and has quick reflexes. A lot of his inability to finish opponents is owed to his training: ironically, he's never learned to compotently fight offense. He's really uncomfortable on the front foot.

Vitali similarly couldn't get off a single big punch, but could win through attrition.

That being said, if they're that athletic as titan, imagine how much more effective they'd be if they were Middleweights.