The Shoulder Roll in 1907

[IronDanHamza]

Dempsey knock out the Klitschkos lol

Is this the same Dempsey who got multiple gift draws against bums with losing records & got knocked out cold by Fireman Jim Flynn?
Same Dempsey who wouldn't even be a journeyman in todays light heavyweight division.

I find it funny how Dempsey is always put at the top of these ATG lists and is listed as one of the best ever. Who the hell did he even beat? Who did Dempsey ever beat but two decent light heavyweights?
What great heavyweight did he supposedly beat? Jess Willard? That guy was about as athletic as sack of spuds.

Just a case of because some idiotic 'historian' claiming he was one of the best ever a flock of sheep follow.

Love NSB any fighter who fights today is rubbish and anyone who has footage of them fighting on some grainy B&W film is a boxing god.

Dempsey gets creamed by todays cruiserweights nevermind the Klitschko's who would swat him like a fly.

I respect him for being an early pioneer but the guy couldn't knockout either of the brothers armed with a 25lb sledgehammer.

This isn't NSB this is HS

Dempsey was a great HW for his day, I don't think Dempsey's style would translate into the modern era well, similar to Bob Fitzsimmons who's obviously a great fighter with a great resume but wouldn't have a prayer against the likes of Roy Jones or Micheal Spinks, for example.

I wouldn't pick Dempsey or Johnson to beat the Klitschko's, put it that way.

On the flipside, they're some fighters from that era that would still translate well into the modern era. In my view.

[Ray Corso]

The Klitz Bros. the cherrypickers champions, get KO'd by Lamont Brewster????
Ross Purity????? Corrie Sanders (decent guy) and hard hitting Cris Byrd these are names that are right at the end of everyones tungue when thinking of great fighters hahaha!!! Atleast Lewis has high praise!!!
The Klitz bros are awkward goofs who can't walk and chew gum at the same time. They throw a right hand and step over their lead foot! They can't fight inside (which is why Marciano/Dempsey/Frazier/Tyson) would get under their jabs and do BIG damage against them. They don't know how to hold so they'd be helpless inside! These guys are NOT athletic in the ring at all. Everyone is amazed they can deliver a jab but it took them years and Manny Steward to sort them out! Ali would be slipping their slow pathetic jabs and moving in off laterial movement and those guys wouldn't SEE the punches!
These are ordinary guys who use their size to their advantage because they don't fight anyone with talents. The few guys they did fight who have some abilities stopped them! Their ordinary guys in ordinary times!!! Ray

[JAB5239]

Dempsey knock out the Klitschkos lol

Is this the same Dempsey who got multiple gift draws against bums with losing records & got knocked out cold by Fireman Jim Flynn?
Same Dempsey who wouldn't even be a journeyman in todays light heavyweight division.

I find it funny how Dempsey is always put at the top of these ATG lists and is listed as one of the best ever. Who the hell did he even beat? Who did Dempsey ever beat but two decent light heavyweights?
What great heavyweight did he supposedly beat? Jess Willard? That guy was about as athletic as sack of spuds.

Just a case of because some idiotic 'historian' claiming he was one of the best ever a flock of sheep follow.

Love NSB any fighter who fights today is rubbish and anyone who has footage of them fighting on some grainy B&W film is a boxing god.

Dempsey gets creamed by todays cruiserweights nevermind the Klitschko's who would swat him like a fly.

I respect him for being an early pioneer but the guy couldn't knockout either of the brothers armed with a 25lb sledgehammer.

Dempsey was a good fighter and would dominate cruiserweight today. But he is very overrated and I see him having little more than a punchers chance with Wlad and next to nil against Vits.

[Barn]

Gans is arguably the greatest lightweight ever. Interchangeable with B. Leonard and Duran in my opinion.

I think Gans' resume isn't good enough for #1. He doesn't come close to Leonard IMO whose is the clearly better.

[JAB5239]

I think Gans' resume isn't good enough for #1. He doesn't come close to Leonard IMO whose is the clearly better.

I too think Leonard has the better resume, but there are other things to consider such as Gans not being allowed to fight everyone and being held back from going all out in many fights.

[UNiQU3]

I agree.

A better or more accurate example of the "Shoulder roll" that fighters tend to use today that's associated with Mayweather shoulder roll would be George Benton.

Wow... Georgie Benton was a badass. Very slick for his time.

[NChristo]

The Klits don't know how to hold ?, now that is ****ing hilarious.

[Barn]

I too think Leonard has the better resume, but there are other things to consider such as Gans not being allowed to fight everyone and being held back from going all out in many fights.

What fighters do you think Gans was entitled to fight but didn't?

I don't think "holding back" in fights is relevant unless it actually changed a Win to a Draw or a Loss. I'm not sure if others do this but I don't usually care how the win was achieved, unless (obviously) it was very close and could have went either way or was a robbery.

[Cuauhtémoc1520]

Joe Gans OG

I agree.

A better or more accurate example of the "Shoulder roll" that fighters tend to use today that's associated with Mayweather shoulder roll would be George Benton.

Couple things said in the first video then a comment on the second one.

First video: That is NOT a shoulder roll. It is simple a slip with the hand down and a counter. Terrible example of what is called the philly shell, which by the way was developed in Philly during the time of George Benton.

Also, you said something about people telling you that boxing isn't about heart....how many pro fights have you had my friend? Heart, balls, technique, intelligence, conditioning, will, desire ALL play a part in winning a fight.

Because if being intelligent or having the better technique is the only thing you need to be successful, then good luck with that. What did Cus D'Mato say.."Everyone has a game plan until they get punched in the face" it was Cus by the way and not tyson.

It is a FIGHT at the end of the day. It is not like playing chess, it's not about strategy ONLY. Sometimes it's about who has the better chin, who wants it more and who is tougher.

Don't believe me? Watch Antonio Margarito fight, Tony Ayala, Jake Lamotta, Marvin Hagler, Arturo Gatti. Micky Ward.....I can go on and on. Not to say they didn't have ANY talent but they weren't masters of the craft by any stretch. They BEAT PEOPLE UP..

Second Video:

The reason I know so much about George Benton is because the head trainer above me in my gym is a student of his. He is from North Philly, he teaches the philly style. Shoulder roll, parry and counter, turning on your shots and slipping with one hand down, shoulder high.

I didn't learn that style in Mexico but I respect it because it works. Not any one style is right or wrong, they can all work but again, it's who is using it that's more important.

Things do change, to say things don't is ignorant of the sport. Boxing was not the same in 1907 at is was in 1970 or now. Boxing like all martial arts evolves, with different schools of thought, with different ideas and techniques.

[Barn]

Good post Cuauh apart from one thing.

Marvin Hagler was a master of his craft.