ban on violent ****

[platinummatt!]

they have guns but they cant say **** on tv

[K-DOGG]

they have guns but they cant say **** on tv

LOL!!!! Valid point, there Matt. I'm the first to admit that Americans can be a little screwy when it comes to morals on certain things.

Sex bad/violence good.......go figure.

[K-DOGG]

However, in defence of the guns issue.......America is a country that was born in violence and was a wilderness (pardons to the Native Americans, here) when our forefathers arrived. Lot's of wild animals and "strange" peoples. Also, remember, when our Constitution was originally written, we had just finished a Revolution against our former government....you guys. So, the people who rose up against our former government were the ones who wrote the constitution and they wanted to make sure that the citizens of this new nation were alway prepared to take up arms and revolt should we feel the need to defend our personal freedoms that we had fought so hard for.......an armed people are a people not easily controlled or abused.

So, that's why we have guns, that's why all of us (those with criminal records not withstanding) have the right to own guns. Personally, I don't have a gun and don't want one; but I do find comfort in knowing that should I ever feel the need to get one, I have the right to do so.

[leff]

However, in defence of the guns issue.......America is a country that was born in violence and was a wilderness (pardons to the Native Americans, here) when our forefathers arrived. Lot's of wild animals and "strange" peoples. Also, remember, when our Constitution was originally written, we had just finished a Revolution against our former government....you guys. So, the people who rose up against our former government were the ones who wrote the constitution and they wanted to make sure that the citizens of this new nation were alway prepared to take up arms and revolt should we feel the need to defend our personal freedoms that we had fought so hard for.......an armed people are a people not easily controlled or abused.

So, that's why we have guns, that's why all of us (those with criminal records not withstanding) have the right to own guns. Personally, I don't have a gun and don't want one; but I do find comfort in knowing that should I ever feel the need to get one, I have the right to do so.

the society as we now it in europe was built upp on viloence, europe has a far more violent history than us, but for some reason we dont have a habbit off shooting each other.....maybe just maybe cus the avergae joe here dont have a gun

[LoftyDog]

the society as we now it in europe was built upp on viloence, europe has a far more violent history than us, but for some reason we dont have a habbit off shooting each other.....maybe just maybe cus the avergae joe here dont have a gun

It is true that Europes history is more violent but its history goes back much farther than the US's. I think that most people don't have guns in the US (im not sure of the statitsic though), and much of the crime is committed with illegal guns. Because of what the founding fathers experianced, they put things in the constitution to protect the people from what they perceived as flaws, like the right to bear arms, separation of powers, etc. It is difficult to compare the US's history to most, if not all, European nations because the history is so different.

[K-DOGG]

the society as we now it in europe was built upp on viloence, europe has a far more violent history than us, but for some reason we dont have a habbit off shooting each other.....maybe just maybe cus the avergae joe here dont have a gun

To be for sure, Europe has had a more violent past than the U.S. for sheer longevity's sake; and with WWI and WWII being fought in people's backyards, it that violence is far more personal.

However, I would suggest to you that it is because of the extremely personal nature of this "extreme violence", which is still in recent memory, that has had the opposite psychological effect on Europeans. Your parents and grand-parents saw the horrors of War first hand, and want no more of it, whereas with Americans, only the Civil War has been fought amongst the bulk of us, so the horrors of war are not as clearly imbedded within our memories or minds. When the U.S., which is a young country, has gone to war, most of the time, the damage was done to others....other's "felt our wrath", so to speak; and while we felt the effects of war through the return of the body bags with our young men and women within.....it's not as poignant as seeing people die outside your window.

You not having guns is more of an example of the positive reaction to the echoes of war, whereas Americans have no such scar to heal from, save for events that happened nearly 150 years ago.....that's why there was such a violent/patriotic reaction to 9-11. That was the first time ANYTHING ever happened like that to us......not this close to home....not since Pearl Harbor.

Just something to think about. The mindset of the people has much to do with how it was formed: Cause and Effect, you see.

Also, as someone else alluded to, there are so many illegal guns floating around in the U.S., that if guns or all firearms were deamed illegal, the innocent/non-criminal element would be at the mercy of the criminal element at this point in time. Could that be cleared up with aggressive pursuit by law enforcement?

Never in a true sense, no. People who want guns will always find them.....which is why I'm glad my Country's forefathers had the forethought to give me the right to own my own...for my protection agaisnt wild animals, wild men, and wild governments....if need be.

[leff]

that we dont shoot each other cause we remeber the world wars is kinda illogical, the most violent emmigrants here are from countries like somalia what is at war as we speak.

they are used to violence and hence they are far more violent than we are.


that the avergae european dont have a gun is cause off laws not because we remeber the war

[K-DOGG]

that we dont shoot each other cause we remeber the world wars is kinda illogical, the most violent emmigrants here are from countries like somalia what is at war as we speak.

they are used to violence and hence they are far more violent than we are.


that the avergae european dont have a gun is cause off laws not because we remeber the war

Right. And who, do you think, wrote those laws?

[K-DOGG]

There's no real "right" or "wrong" on this issue, Jeff. It's a matter of opinion and cultural pedigree, so to speak. We are a product of our environments; and our environments are composed of not only our immediate surroundings, but also the teachings and attitudes that have been passed down from previous generations and the point of view that our forefathers had towards their environments and the governments that ruled them or that they ruled.

With time, all things eventually morph or change; but time is the key...and the direction a society grows has much to do with where it's roots lay. An oak tree can no more produce pine cones than an apple tree can produce oranges. Europe is a completely different environment/culture than is the contitnental United States, or North America which is comprised of an amalgum of peoples and cultures, merging together as best we can. Does Europe now have more immigrants than native Europeans? I don't know; but the odds are the original European base people are still the majority, whereas America's original people are all but forgotten these days, making the decendants of the formerly foreign cultures the majoriy.

Attitudes have origins....find those origins; and you have a far better chance of understanding the present people and their thoughts. Do some Amercians want guns to be banned? Of course they do. Are they right? Depends.

In the end, a gun is a tool and is used the way the holder desires. If he desires to take another human life, he can. If he desires to hunt some deer or quail or duck or whatever and put food on the table, he can do that as well. If he wants to defend himself and his family from a crazy person who has invaded his home or an invading foreign army with several of his fellow citizens, he is capable of doing that. If his government betrays him and tries to diminsish his rights and reduce him to a slave of the system and try to return him to essential serfdom, he can fight back and choose to die fighting for his God-given rights than live in slavery without them.

It's all about choice, for a gun has no conscious, no motive, no purpose.....other than the purpose of the man/woman holding it. It is not evil, nor an instrument of evil unless the holder has evil in his heart....in which case, the evil can just as easily be carried out by other means. While it is true that it is easier to pull a trigger than it is to cut a man's throat, it still boils down to what's inside the man.

I don't have a gun. Don't want one. But; if I did have one, odds are I wouldn't go on a killing rampage because it is not in me.

Earlier, I had suggested psychological evaluations for all would-be gun-owners; and I still think this is the way to go, for it is an exact way to determine the probability of the man/woman missusing the gun. If they are found wanting in psychological make-up, they don't get the priveledge of owning a gun. That way, guns are in the hands of rational, sane people.....and maybe someday, some distant day, we will no longer need them at all; but that day will not come in your or my life-time.

[leff]

Right. And who, do you think, wrote those laws?

politicans........ so whats your point? that europeans politicians understand that the average shouldnt have a gun?

and si leff not jeff


oh and btw do you think guns should be banned?