We're leaving Iraq

[Left Hook Tua]

Correct. I do not think that. It's much more complicated.



Why not??

If it's a "war for oil" as you claim, obviously we would have taken the oil when we easily could have.



If war break out between us and China, then I can see your point.

But we are not at war with China.

Let's discuss what we think the proper actions to take are with how the world is now, not what it might/could/maybe in the future.



Too damn many.



Plenty of oil outside the ME. You have large oil reserves in Indonesia, for example.

Then you have Venezuela too. And I'd wager theyll sell it pretty cheap.

It's not that complicated. They have oil, their importance strategically is magnified.

Yeah strategic planning is done before the war. By the time war begins it's already too late.

Yeah and there's a reason we have so many bases in the region. Why do you think they're there? Just for the heck of it?

Look at a map. How easily does china get oil from Venezuela when u.s. navy is trying to prevent it?

[Left Hook Tua]

Btw china is just the theoretical future opponent now.

Same held true for when u.s.s.r. was the potential adversary. That's why u.s. and u.s.s.r. vied for influence in the middle east.

Neither was dependent on middle east oil.

But both recognize NATO countries and u.s. allies dependence on middle east oil.

[ΣNΣMY]

I did not say they attacked Americans. I said there were American troops in the region, which is absolutely true. Kurds have been a thorn in the side of Turkey since Attaturk. Both Iran and Turkey have sizable Kurdish populations and neither one wants or would allow an Independent Kurdish state that included parts of their territories. Whether or not they Kurds should have a country is besides the point. The facts on the ground are I have stated them. End of story.

What's the end of the story? You said we'd never give the Iraqi Kurds the OK to break off from Iraq because Trump was too scared of Turkey and Iran. That we need Turkey more than they need us over an airbase we really don't need, and that they attacked nearby some American troops like they did something.

[1bad65]

It's not that complicated. They have oil, their importance strategically is magnified.

Yeah strategic planning is done before the war. By the time war begins it's already too late.

Yeah and there's a reason we have so many bases in the region. Why do you think they're there? Just for the heck of it?

Look at a map. How easily does china get oil from Venezuela when u.s. navy is trying to prevent it?

Btw china is just the theoretical future opponent now.

Same held true for when u.s.s.r. was the potential adversary. That's why u.s. and u.s.s.r. vied for influence in the middle east.

Neither was dependent on middle east oil.

But both recognize NATO countries and u.s. allies dependence on middle east oil.

I get that the oil makes them strategically important, but first we can be oil independent if we so choose, and secondly their importance is waning globally as more and more countries go to alternative sources of energy.

Imo, we can up and leave. But we make it clear that if you attack Americans or American assets, you will be zapped out of the sky like this terrorist guy just was. Call me what you will, but I think that would stop a lot of these terrorist leaders who send others to conduct the actual attacks. If their lives are now on the line, I'd wager they'll chill.

I know why we have all the bases, my point is if we didn't get involved in all these foreign entanglements as our Founders had warned us not to do, we wouldn't have them which is a good thing.

I completely agree this is a lot like the Cold War, as again our adversary's goal is world domination under their system of Government and we oppose them.


I've actually always wondered why the Soviets chose to back the Arab nations back then. I know we supported Israel, but that was so they wouldn't be annihilated. I've actually never asked why the Eastern Bloc supported the other side.

I do know both NATO and the Warsaw Pact used the Arab-Israeli conflicts to test their weapons under actual battlefield conditions, without themselves having to actually engage in war.

[Left Hook Tua]

I get that the oil makes them strategically important, but first we can be oil independent if we so choose, and secondly their importance is waning globally as more and more countries go to alternative sources of energy.

Imo, we can up and leave. But we make it clear that if you attack Americans or American assets, you will be zapped out of the sky like this terrorist guy just was. Call me what you will, but I think that would stop a lot of these terrorist leaders who send others to conduct the actual attacks. If their lives are now on the line, I'd wager they'll chill.

I know why we have all the bases, my point is if we didn't get involved in all these foreign entanglements as our Founders had warned us not to do, we wouldn't have them which is a good thing.

I completely agree this is a lot like the Cold War, as again our adversary's goal is world domination under their system of Government and we oppose them.


I've actually always wondered why the Soviets chose to back the Arab nations back then. I know we supported Israel, but that was so they wouldn't be annihilated. I've actually never asked why the Eastern Bloc supported the other side.

I do know both NATO and the Warsaw Pact used the Arab-Israeli conflicts to test their weapons under actual battlefield conditions, without themselves having to actually engage in war.

We are oil independent. With frakking we're back to being a top oil producer again. We actually hurt a lot of our OPEC allies with our frakking. We caused the oil prices to drop.

Problem is our friends and allies. Europe, NATO our Asian allies like Japan and Korea. All are heavily dependent on middle east oil. So we look after their interest.

But also potential rivals like china depend heavily on middle east oil. Their economy and military depends on oil and the more capable we are to cutting off that supply when we need to, the more vulnerable they are.

One day, that region importance will wane when their oil dries up or alternative energy sources replace oil. When that day comes we will care less about that region. But not before.