Is it possible for people to live by high moral standards without religion?

[squealpiggy]

You don't look at this life as some temporary thing where you can get a second chance, or get forgiveness for the bull**** you do by some supernatural thing so you don't have to answer to your fellow humans here and now.

The religious version of life on earth is even worse than that. It's not about getting a second chance, it's about life on earth subjectively not having any meaning at all because the only thing that counts is the eternal next life. That's how religious people could justify horrific tortures in the name of eradicating witchcraft or heresy. If somebody was trying to jeopardise a human soul, the reasoning goes, then that is the absolute worse thing they could do, and the use of horrific tortures and punishments to save other souls was entirely justified.

[Mooshashi]

Yes, it is possible. Myamoto Mushashi, 16th century Japanese samurai, codified Bushido in his Book of Five Rings. He defined the Way of training that applied to both swordfighting and life in general. He may not strictly been an atheist, but he is famously quoted "I respect the gods, but I do not rely on them".

[BennyST]

In many societies, some form of religion has set the standard for morality.

Are humans capable of living with high moral and ethical standards without a religion?

Is fear of eternal hellfire (Christian belief) or fear of your soul ceasing to exist (Jehovah's Witnesses belief) or fear of punishment within a society (Islam's Sharia Law) necessary to have people live an honest and moral life?

Or can people behave in an honorable and moral way without religion?

I'm not giving an opinion on this, I just wonder what people think so I'm asking.

Secular countries like Japan have very high moral standards. They don't need religion and a supernatural being to enforce morality.

What about before Christ? Do you think everyone was just insane and doing evil ****? Unlikely, particularly according to history.

Anyway, considering what's in the bible, written as literal passages easily understood, it's not as if they have some dominion over morality. What passes for morality in the bible is literally primitive barbarism that does not stand up to our moral and ethical standards today. That is why there are so many caveats that come with the bible now. In terms of an absolute morality from the word of god, it's ****ing disgraceful. There is no one on this site that could, without being completely dishonest, condone what the bible stands for in moral terms I'd venture.

Our moral standards have evolved from 2000 years ago.

[Cuauhtémoc1520]

Secular countries like Japan have very high moral standards. They don't need religion and a supernatural being to enforce morality.

What about before Christ? Do you think everyone was just insane and doing evil ****? Unlikely, particularly according to history.

Anyway, considering what's in the bible, written as literal passages easily understood, it's not as if they have some dominion over morality. What passes for morality in the bible is literally primitive barbarism that does not stand up to our moral and ethical standards today. That is why there are so many caveats that come with the bible now. In terms of an absolute morality from the word of god, it's ****ing disgraceful. There is no one on this site that could, without being completely dishonest, condone what the bible stands for in moral terms I'd venture.

Our moral standards have evolved from 2000 years ago.

Here's another point as well. I was listening to a former Muslim that heads a group for former Muslims in Islamic countries and offers shelter to them. He made a great analogy that Christianity has been diluted in comparison to Islam.

That where Islam is now, is where Christianity was in the 15th century. It made a lot of sense because there's plenty of crazy moral pronouncements that Christians don't adhere to. For example, killing your neighbor if he works on the Sabbath or stoning women to death if they aren't virgins when they are married.

No Christian would do that today, yet in the Muslim world you hear horrific stories of honor killings. It has been secular morality that has brought Christianity to the 20th century kicking and screaming but they got here.

[squealpiggy]

What about before Christ? Do you think everyone was just insane and doing evil ****? Unlikely, particularly according to history.

Actually while the rate of violent death dropped precipitously following the formation of tribes and then states the more progressive elements of ethics have their origins in the Enlightenment of the 17th to 19th century and onward into the 20th in which things like slavery were declared to be wrong, women were regarded as human beings, cruel torturous executions were outlawed, regressive things like demanding payment from the families of prisoners for "easement of irons" were abolished. If you're looking at the alleged life of Christ for a zero year in morality then you're looking at the wrong place. Crucifixion, scaphism, blood sport tournaments, breaking at the wheel, hanging, drawing and quartering, torture of heretics and witches, multiple genocides, rape as a spoil of war, all of these things were commonplace well after Jesus was supposed to have lived.

Our moral standards have evolved from 2000 years ago.

They've evolved from 20 years ago! Look at our attitudes to cruelty to animals, or acceptance of people of different sexuality, look at our aversion to civilian deaths in warfare even!

[[ DUBBZZ ]]

I like to think that human beings are perfectly capable of distinguishing the difference between right and wrong with promise of reward or threat of punishment like some sort of trained house pet.

[ßringer]

Morality is simply a matter of time and geography. What's perfectly moral to you right now is completely immoral to somebody halfway across the globe.

If anything, religion teaches immorality.

[Russian Crushin]

Considering religion and morality are man made, I don't see why not

[I Love Jesus!]

The soul is most certainly eternal and plenty of people who have had near death experiences proves it 100 percent.

[squealpiggy]

The soul is most certainly eternal and plenty of people who have had near death experiences proves it 100 percent.

Come on.