George Zimmerman - Murder, Self-Defense or Too Soon to Say?

[Bushbaby]

Murder as in first degree murder (premeditated; "cold blood"), or manslaughter - as in he wasn't justified in shooting him, but he didn't "plan" on shooting him until the situation escalated. . .

No matter how complex anyone tries to make this, I look at it in the simplest way possible. Zimmerman was armed with a loaded firearm. For whatever reason he decided to exit his vehicle & persue the boy, obviously knowing that fact.

That's simple enough for me. I do not know many people that would have an overwhelming need to run face 1st into something that could possibly escalate that far without wanting to do it.

So that says it all for me. GZ should have never, ever followed that boy. That action set in motion the chain of events that led to the death of an unarmed minor, that's a fact. The most glaring & obvious of facts.

[UglyPug]

No matter how complex anyone tries to make this, I look at it in the simplest way possible. Zimmerman was armed with a loaded firearm. For whatever reason he decided to exit his vehicle & persue the boy, obviously knowing that fact.

That's simple enough for me. I do not know many people that would have an overwhelming need to run face 1st into something that could possibly escalate that far without wanting to do it.

So that says it all for me. GZ should have never, ever followed that boy. That action set in motion the chain of events that led to the death of an unarmed minor, that's a fact. The most glaring & obvious of facts.

I think everybody agrees with this. . . Lol, but that doesn't make you a murderer? And it certainly doesn't make you a "cold blooded" murderer. .

I'll rephrase the question: Do you think he pursued (LOL I noticed you've been spelling it "persued") Trayvon with THE INTENT to shoot him? Or do you think he honestly believed he was a potential risk to his community, and just wanted to find out who he was/what he was doing?

Also, don't you think SOME of the blame would lay on Trayvon IF (this is a BIG IF), Zimmerman's story was true? That Trayvon was the one who in fact approached him after he had lost him? Would that make you feel any different?

Finally, IF (once again, big IF) Trayvon really jumped on Zimmerman after he knocked him down, and proceeded to smash his head on the concrete over and over again, would this change your feeling about the situation any?

[Bushbaby]

I think everybody agrees with this. . . Lol, but that doesn't make you a murderer? And it certainly doesn't make you a "cold blooded" murderer. .

I'll rephrase the question: Do you think he pursued (LOL I noticed you've been spelling it "persued") Trayvon with THE INTENT to shoot him? Or do you think he honestly believed he was a potential risk to his community, and just wanted to find out who he was/what he was doing?Also, don't you think SOME of the blame would lay on Trayvon IF (this is a BIG IF), Zimmerman's story was true? That Trayvon was the one who in fact approached him after he had lost him? Would that make you feel any different?

Finally, IF (once again, big IF) Trayvon really jumped on Zimmerman after he knocked him down, and proceeded to smash his head on the concrete over and over again, would this change your feeling about the situation any?

I don't like to answer the bold. Because that makes it seem obviously race driven. Black man-Hoody obvious danger bro. But also if GZ didn't have a gun, playing cop, there would be no death. Heard of liquid courage?? Well this is shotgun courage.

As far as the second half you asked, would it change my mind if Trayvon attacked him. That's the fuzzy part of this ordeal that will probably never be answered. Which is why I resort back to the very beginning of the entire ordeal. What happened after GZ chased TM is unclear Pug. But him chasing TM 1st is the only clear fact. That's why as simply as it can be explained is why IMO it's his fault for chasing an unarmed minor carrying heat for walking with a hoody on in the rain.

For the record, I always thought GZ said it's ffing cold not coons.

[UglyPug]

I don't like to answer the bold. Because that makes it seem obviously race driven. Black man-Hoody obvious danger bro. But also if GZ didn't have a gun, playing cop, there would be no death. Heard of liquid courage?? Well this is shotgun courage.

As far as the second half you asked, would it change my mind if Trayvon attacked him. That's the fuzzy part of this ordeal that will probably never be answered. Which is why I resort back to the very beginning of the entire ordeal. What happened after GZ chased TM is unclear Pug. But him chasing TM 1st is the only clear fact. That's why as simply as it can be explained is why IMO it's his fault for chasing an unarmed minor carrying heat for walking with a hoody on in the rain.

For the record, I always thought GZ said it's ffing cold not coons.

What if the guys who were seen in the area around the time of the break-ins were black? Would it have REALLY been that "racist" if he just wanted to find out what was going on? There is a difference between racial profiling (which sometimes can be justified. EX: cops get call reporting white male seen in area of break-ins; two days later cops see a white guy at nighttime walking by himself in the rain with hood up), and being racist. What if the kid WAS NOT BLACK, and was latino like ZImmerman? Or white? Don't you think Zimmerman's intentions were more than likely good? All because he was in the wrong by initially following Trayvon, doesn't necessarily mean "he is 100% at fault, PERIOD" like you are making it out.


I think the truth always lies somewhere in between. . . And I can see many ways this could have played out where Trayvon would have to take some of the blame for the situatoin escalating to a fight. . .

I'm simply not ready to label this a murder like you are all because Zimmerman "got out of the car to follow Trayvon" (after calling 911 first, and there being a recent string of break-ins). . .

[UglyPug]

But yes, there is NO DOUBT ZImmerman should not have followed Trayvon. . . And more than likely he had a "cop's mentality", despite not being a cop. . . I don't know whether or not he had "vigilante" mindset, though, and was the type who had an "itchy trigger finger" just looking for somebody to give him a reason. . . .

[Bushbaby]

What if the guys who were seen in the area around the time of the break-ins were black? Would it have REALLY been that "racist" if he just wanted to find out what was going on? There is a difference between racial profiling (which sometimes can be justified. EX: cops get call reporting white male seen in area of break-ins; two days later cops see a white guy at nighttime walking by himself in the rain with hood up), and being racist. What if the kid WAS NOT BLACK, and was latino like ZImmerman? Or white? Don't you think Zimmerman's intentions were more than likely good? All because he was in the wrong by initially following Trayvon, doesn't necessarily mean "he is 100% at fault, PERIOD" like you are making it out.


I think the truth always lies somewhere in between. . . And I can see many ways this could have played out where Trayvon would have to take some of the blame for the situatoin escalating to a fight. . .

I'm simply not ready to label this a murder like you are all because Zimmerman "got out of the car to follow Trayvon" (after calling 911 first, and there being a recent string of break-ins). . .

But yes, there is NO DOUBT ZImmerman should not have followed Trayvon. . . And more than likely he had a "cop's mentality", despite not being a cop. . . I don't know whether or not he had "vigilante" mindset, though, and was the type who had an "itchy trigger finger" just looking for somebody to give him a reason. . . .

LOL, I didn't ask you your feelings though. I simply posted mine.

The bottom line for my reasoning is what it's always been. GZ's story is the only one we'll ever here. Why?? Because the only other person that really knows what happened is dead.

This wasn't some simple scuffle where both parties walked away. This was an event where an armed man instigated an event with an unarmed minor who was killed in the process. GZ should not walk away from this scott free. My opinion. Like I said I'm not debating what you believe. I'm defending what I believe.

BTW this isn't even vigilante justice. Because TM committed no crime, nor did GZ have any grounds to instigate anything. Hoody does not = crime.

[BMWM3P]

I was neutral but now leaning toward self defense.

Judging by the police reports, the witness accounts and Zimmerman's story. I am almost 100% sure that he was attacked by TM what I'm not completely sure of is the severity of the attack. If TM was pounding Zimmerman's head against the floor then it is a clear case for self defense.

When I was teen, I was a skate punk and on many occasions I was targeted by idiotic mall security and overzealous ******s like Zimmerman just because of the way I dressed. Their dumb actions didn't give me the right to attack them and in my case I just verbally abuse them. Had Treyvon done the same he would alive today.

[SammySosa]

If Zimmerman was black, this story would probably not make the news and there would be no outcry.

We were duped by the media into thinking this was racial.

[UglyPug]

LOL, I didn't ask you your feelings though. I simply posted mine.

The bottom line for my reasoning is what it's always been. GZ's story is the only one we'll ever here. Why?? Because the only other person that really knows what happened is dead.

This wasn't some simple scuffle where both parties walked away. This was an event where an armed man instigated an event with an unarmed minor who was killed in the process. GZ should not walk away from this scott free. My opinion. Like I said I'm not debating what you believe. I'm defending what I believe.

BTW this isn't even vigilante justice. Because TM committed no crime, nor did GZ have any grounds to instigate anything. Hoody does not = crime.

Well, it just so happens that your reasoning you use to reach your "opinion", is flawed. . . I'm telling you my feelings because I'm basing them on unbiased reasoning, and I'm hoping to find out if you really are just that incredulous. . .THANK GOD you will never have anything to do with the law, and lets hope you never sit on a jury ( didn't you spend serious time in jail?). . .

You are ASSUMING Zimmerman instigated the fight? I'm sorry, but we DO NOT know who instigated the fight! We don't even know if Zimmerman is the one who approached Trayvon?

Yes, it would be vigilante justice if Trayvon punched Zimmerman for no reason, and then began pounding his head on the concrete over nad over again. . .

[UglyPug]

If Zimmerman was black, this story would probably not make the news and there would be no outcry.

We were duped by the media into thinking this was racial.

And if the media did not report the race of the parties involved, there wouldn't be all these people calling for Zimmerman's head. People would be more willing to approach the situation from a neutral stance, and wait to find out exactly what happened.