George Zimmerman is a MURDEROUS DOUCHE BAG

[UglyPug]

To me that is ******ed if you try to rob a bank and get shot and killed. Then you got what you deserved.
Here Zimmerman stalked and probably attacked a minor. When he probably got the but whipping he deserved he drew and shot the victim.
He doesn't deserve protection under the law. He deserves to be in a jail cell getting ready to sleep next to Bubba for the next 20-30 years.
Also from the start I hated the fact that people made it a race thing.
Without the "race" factor Zimmerman still shot and killed an unarmed minor for no reason. Adding the racial element just makes the case that much more murky to prosecute. His defense team will claim that George can't get a free trial due to publicity.
Many of the witnesses probably will be considered bias because they spoke to the press.
The stand your ground law even as presently written only says you can defend yourself if you have a "reasonable" fear of being attacked.

Stand your ground not chase and take ground.

Well that's a little bit different of a scenario if you are in the process of committing a felony. . . It's always a VERY FACT SPECIFIC, and fact intensive type deal. . . No situation is ever the same.

Normally you are allowed to meet the level of force, with equal force. . . So here (JUST GIVING A HYPOTHETICAL). . . It wouldn't be self defense if Trayvon just punched Zimmerman a few times, and did what he had to do to fend Zimmerman off and then Zimmerman shot him . . . But it MIGHT BE self defense if Trayvon continued to wail away on Zimmerman, while Zimmerman was in a defenseless, and "helpless" position. . . (even though Zimmerman ultimately initiated the confrontation)

I agree with you. . .

[Bushbaby]

ALso I see just as much ignorance, and racism from latinos to blacks, and blacks to latinos. . . There's definitely too much hate in some people's hearts, and ignorance in their brains. . . Overall, it's a vey small minority, but still way too much for my comfort.

Everybody should smoke weed and listen to Bob Marley, John Lennon, etc.. . . .

This is the very reason I don't bring up race into this debate. Because they are racist from every nationality.

[UglyPug]

Stand your ground" governs U.S. federal case law in which self-defense is asserted against a charge of criminal homicide. The Supreme Court ruled in Beard v. U.S. (1895) that a man who was "on his premises" when he came under attack and "...did not provoke the assault, and had at the time reasonable grounds to believe, and in good faith believed, that the deceased intended to take his life, or do him great bodily harm...was not obliged to retreat, nor to consider whether he could safely retreat, but was entitled to stand his ground."[2][3]

Reasonable grounds is not following, pursuing, and initiating a conflict.

No, it's not. . . However, like I explained, once Zimmerman became in a position where he was helpless, and if Trayvon continued to attack him, the "aggressor/victim" scenarios would SWITCH. . . THere are precent cases wehre the "aggressor" ultimately became the victim, and was ruled to be acting in self defense. . .

Lol man I've read PLENTY of cases where the law could be interpreted as such. . . LIke I said - ITS VERY FACT SPECIFIC. . .

[THE REED]

A close friend of mine in highschool died the summer after graduation.

He went to this neighborhood because he and some friend heard about a party, knocked on the door, asked if there was a party.. .rich kid said no gtfo... My friend and his 2 friends left... rich kid, for no reason loaded his gun, jumped in his bmw and chased them for several miles... my friend called one of his friends asking if he can come to his house cuz this dude was chasing him... he pulled up to my friends house.. bmw pulled behind him.. my friend was big, maybe 6' 1" 265... he got out of his car, ran back to the bmw.. pulled the kid out of his car and started beating the **** out of him.. kid pulled out his gun shot him 3 times... my friend fell to the ground, kid walked up and emptied his clip point blank.

Kid tried pleading self defense because my friend was hitting him.

Didnt fly... he went to jail.

Equal force.

[Boxingtech718v2]

Well that's a little bit different of a scenario if you are in the process of committing a felony. . . It's always a VERY FACT SPECIFIC, and fact intensive type deal. . . No situation is ever the same.

Normally you are allowed to meet the level of force, with equal force. . . So here (JUST GIVING A HYPOTHETICAL). . . It wouldn't be self defense if Trayvon just punched Zimmerman a few times, and did what he had to do to fend Zimmerman off and then Zimmerman shot him . . . But it MIGHT BE self defense if Trayvon continued to wail away on Zimmerman, while Zimmerman was in a defenseless, and "helpless" position. . . (even though Zimmerman ultimately initiated the confrontation)

I agree with you. . .

Well we don't know if that happened because Zimmerman shot and killed and unarmed minor that was far smaller than he.
It was Zimmerman that brought a gun to a fist fight, aka disproportionate force.
Do you know what the consequences of this standing would be?
I could follow you to a secluded area provoke a fight then shoot you and claim self defense and get away with murder.
That's what George Zimmerman did he followed the kid, provoked the situation, and killed him.

[UglyPug]

Well we don't know if that happened because Zimmerman shot and killed and unarmed minor that was far smaller than he.
It was Zimmerman that brought a gun to a fist fight, aka disproportionate force.
Do you know what the consequences of this standing would be?
I could follow you to a secluded area provoke a fight then shoot you and claim self defense and get away with murder.
That's what George Zimmerman did he followed the kid, provoked the situation, and killed him.

Exactly. . WE DO NOT KNOW. . . Did Trayvon KNOW Zimmerman had a gun? Did Trayvon stomp on Zimmerman's head over and over again after Zimmerman was in a helpless position? Were they simply in a "struggle/scuffle" and ZImmerman shot him? WHAT HAPPENED from the time Zimmerman made contact with Trayvon, to the time Trayvon shot him? WE DON'T KNOW!

However, I AGREE WITH YOU 100%. . . I'm just trying to think of a RARE SCENARIO where Zimmerman MIGHT actually have a chance to plead self defense successfully.

[UglyPug]

A close friend of mine in highschool died the summer after graduation.

He went to this neighborhood because he and some friend heard about a party, knocked on the door, asked if there was a party.. .rich kid said no gtfo... My friend and his 2 friends left... rich kid, for no reason loaded his gun, jumped in his bmw and chased them for several miles... my friend called one of his friends asking if he can come to his house cuz this dude was chasing him... he pulled up to my friends house.. bmw pulled behind him.. my friend was big, maybe 6' 1" 265... he got out of his car, ran back to the bmw.. pulled the kid out of his car and started beating the **** out of him.. kid pulled out his gun shot him 3 times... my friend fell to the ground, kid walked up and emptied his clip point blank.

Kid tried pleading self defense because my friend was hitting him.

Didnt fly... he went to jail.

Equal force.

Maybe if he just shot him once, and didn't proceed to empty his clip into him after he fell down (from the initial shot), he would have a case for self-defense. . . But even then I doubt it, since your friend KNEW he had a gun, and KNEW their lives were at risk. . . he would be justified (as oyu said, using equal force) to ensure that kid never got the chance to use that gun.

These are very stick situations, and very fact specific. . .

[Boxingtech718v2]

Exactly. . WE DO NOT KNOW. . . Did Trayvon KNOW Zimmerman had a gun? Did Trayvon stomp on Zimmerman's head over and over again after Zimmerman was in a helpless position? Were they simply in a "struggle/scuffle" and ZImmerman shot him? WHAT HAPPENED from the time Zimmerman made contact with Trayvon, to the time Trayvon shot him? WE DON'T KNOW!

However, I AGREE WITH YOU 100%. . . I'm just trying to think of a RARE SCENARIO where Zimmerman MIGHT actually have a chance to plead self defense successfully.

Well I'm going to let the Judge and Jury figure it out.
Just that the public outcome of letting Zimmerman walk free will be a return to the Wild Wild West era in Florida.
People will be "standing ground" murdering all over the place.

[THE REED]

Maybe if he just shot him once, and didn't proceed to empty his clip into him after he fell down (from the initial shot), he would have a case for self-defense. . . But even then I doubt it, since your friend KNEW he had a gun, and KNEW their lives were at risk. . . he would be justified (as oyu said, using equal force) to ensure that kid never got the chance to use that gun.

These are very stick situations, and very fact specific. . .

He had no idea he had a gun... If he did I dont think he would of went back there to fist fight him.

[Boxingtech718v2]

To be honest I'm more upset about the Sanford police dept's attitude and handling of the investigation than I am about the murder.
People get killed all the time it happens. But when it happens you expect the law to respond accordingly.
Here the law helped the criminal instead of the injured party.