Why the abortion debate is never black and white...

[Cuauhtémoc1520]

It's not a woman's issue it's a money issue and who will have to pay the bill in the end, us the men? It's a woman's issue when it comes to conceiving the buggers but not when it comes to footing the bill. Of course this doesn't apply to all the single woman raising a child that the man knowingly consented too. A woman can wear a condom or shut her legs as well if she doesn't then **** her right to an abortion. Wait no that's wrong, it's her right to choose. Well then it should be a man's right to choose to pay if he never wanted a brat in the first place. You made the choice to have the kid deal with the consequences of your choice then. Shouldn't be both ways, fair is fair. When I had my kid we sat down talked about it, planned and did the damn thing. After we decided to wait for number two so I paid for a mirena. It's good for 5 years and I footed the bill no problem. Notice the common theme we worked together and made a common decision, no one person in a relationship should make any decision unilaterally, especially when it comes to children. Feminist and manginas want to effectively neuter the husband/male partner and give all responsibility/power to the female. I refuse to live like that I work too hard and sacrifice too much.

Equal Rights, means for everybody not for one group. If men can't demand a fair shake then let's just get rid of all the women's rights gains from the last couple of decades. What happened to desiring progress?

You have no ground on which to stand you repeat the same lines over and over again. I've refuted everything you say with clear arguments. When you can't defeat my logic you get angry. It's almost like reverse sexism, when it comes to anything to do with divorce, child support, etc.

Honestly, your logic would be clever if it was on some alter universe where everything was backwards and different. Reality on this planet is something else.

First off you make claim after claim that men foot the bill, men have to pay, men have to be held accountable when it's not something he did alone, we get that.

What you fail to understand or just are ignoring because it destroys your entire argument is that money isn't the only thing of worth in this relationship as far as having to "pay". It's much easier to write a check or hand out cash than it is to wake up in the middle of the night and feed the kid, change the kid, clean his/her puke etc. Being a house wife or a single mother, while they don't technically get paid for doing that, don't think it's still not an incredible JOB being done.

Be there in the most difficult times of a small child and how incredibly taxing it is on a woman doing this on her own. You are 100% right in saying it's both the man and woman but unfortunately for you, it's the woman who carries the child inside of her and that's something that changes the dynamics of this and makes your argument pointless.

When two people have sex, it's MUTUAL, we agree on that right? So if both the male and female agreed to have sex but then all of a sudden the male decides he doesn't want to have the child that come from that sex, he can't FORCE the female to have an abortion.

But that still doesn't excuse his responsibility in the matter if she doesn't agree to it, I don't know what part of that you don't get.

It's like if you commit a crime and then go to the judge and say, ok I'm truly sorry for what I did, it still won't get you off even if you are truly sorry. You still have to pay for your actions regardless.

Getting a woman pregnant and demanding an abortion is fine but if she decides to have it, then you are stuck with the responsibility because you can't force her to do something with her own body.

Pay to play....it's that simple and I'm done explaining this basic common sense.

[prime tyme]

True.

But it would take a very special man to get me to give it up.

<<<-------

[Boxingtech718v2]

I pretty much completely agree with Boxingtech718v2.

Hes made some very good points imo.

Both issues "abortion rights" and "Paternal opt out" are moral issues.

People need to stop trying to enforce their own morals on others.

Religious folks want to force women to not have abortions.

Morons want men to be at the mercy of baby mommas lol.

[Bossy]

Both issues "abortion rights" and "Paternal opt out" are moral issues.

People need to stop trying to enforce their own morals on others.

Religious folks want to force women to not have abortions.

Morons want men to be at the mercy of baby mommas lol.

May I just add, even if my ex was paying child support I can promise you it would still cost me 3 times that just to keep my kids in a decent lifestyle.

Some guys pay like $30 A MONTH. That's a dollar a day to feed, clothe, house a child? I wanna see someone live off of that.

[Boxingtech718v2]

Honestly, your logic would be clever if it was on some alter universe where everything was backwards and different. Reality on this planet is something else.

First off you make claim after claim that men foot the bill, men have to pay, men have to be held accountable when it's not something he did alone, we get that.

What you fail to understand or just are ignoring because it destroys your entire argument is that money isn't the only thing of worth in this relationship as far as having to "pay". It's much easier to write a check or hand out cash than it is to wake up in the middle of the night and feed the kid, change the kid, clean his/her puke etc. Being a house wife or a single mother, while they don't technically get paid for doing that, don't think it's still not an incredible JOB being done.
Be there in the most difficult times of a small child and how incredibly taxing it is on a woman doing this on her own. You are 100% right in saying it's both the man and woman but unfortunately for you, it's the woman who carries the child inside of her and that's something that changes the dynamics of this and makes your argument pointless.

When two people have sex, it's MUTUAL, we agree on that right? So if both the male and female agreed to have sex but then all of a sudden the male decides he doesn't want to have the child that come from that sex, he can't FORCE the female to have an abortion.

But that still doesn't excuse his responsibility in the matter if she doesn't agree to it, I don't know what part of that you don't get.

It's like if you commit a crime and then go to the judge and say, ok I'm truly sorry for what I did, it still won't get you off even if you are truly sorry. You still have to pay for your actions regardless.

Getting a woman pregnant and demanding an abortion is fine but if she decides to have it, then you are stuck with the responsibility because you can't force her to do something with her own body.

Pay to play....it's that simple and I'm done explaining this basic common sense.

I know what the score is the point is that still doesn't make it right.

Reality is also women voters outnumber male voters yet we have hardly any female lawmakers is that right? No
Reality is women in the same profession often make far less than their male counterparts is this fair? No
Reality is that Whites in this country seem to enjoy a high quality of education, healthcare, and job opportunities is this right? No
Now using these issues as a small example of the status quo.

These are issues that minority and social groups attempt to change all over this country because it's not right and not fair.

The truth is reality might be one way but if it isn't right we as civilized people should not hesitate to redress greviances and right the wrongs.
So if it is wrong for men to fight for rightness then to hell with the whole equality thing.

Equality is for EVERYBODY not just one group.

[Boxingtech718v2]

May I just add, even if my ex was paying child support I can promise you it would still cost me 3 times that just to keep my kids in a decent lifestyle.

Some guys pay like $30 A MONTH. That's a dollar a day to feed, clothe, house a child? I wanna see someone live off of that.

You told me earlier that people should watch who the have sex with and have kids did you not?

Well obviously you were a different person back then and probably didn't see this coming.

Regardless, how about the numbers of guys paying through the nose for kid that don't need thousands a month to provide care?

Also if the guy doesn't have a job it's tough to bill him for what he doesn't make. What are we to do garnish his unemployment? Redundant.

But at least you seem able to care for your brood on your own which I complement you for.

But the vast majority of Fathers take care of and support their children. Some even take care of others offspring when the biological parents fail.

[NEETzsche]

that article is an utterly shameless appeal to emotion. if you actually read the whole thing, it goes on to clarify that her subjection to the description of her child was a mistake on behalf of that particular practice, and that the law itself makes a distinction between unfortunate cases such as the one in question, in which the child has some kind of untreatable abnormality, and the usual cases in which the decision to abort is entirely self-concerned on the part of the would-be parents. as a pro-lifer, i believe that that distinction is important.

also, i've only skimmed the thread, so someone might have beaten me to the punch here, but contraception is not solely a male responsibility. if a woman gets pregnant because a guy didn't strap up, it's as much her fault as his. i would have thought this was common sense.

[Bossy]

You told me earlier that people should watch who the have sex with and have kids did you not?

Well obviously you were a different person back then and probably didn't see this coming.

But the vast majority of Fathers take care of and support their children. Some even take care of others offspring when the biological parents fail.

I definitely did, that is why I feel so strongly about the whole condom thing.

I'm not a naive 19 year old girl any more. The whole 'yeah, I love you babe, we're gonna be a family' blah blah thing would probably make me laugh more than it would drop my panties now a days.

But it's just the assumption that men paying child support are 'footing the bill'. You are helping to raise your child.

[Boxingtech718v2]

I definitely did, that is why I feel so strongly about the whole condom thing.

I'm not a naive 19 year old girl any more. The whole 'yeah, I love you babe, we're gonna be a family' blah blah thing would probably make me laugh more than it would drop my panties now a days.

But it's just the assumption that men paying child support are 'footing the bill'. You are helping to raise your child.

I'm not against child support as a WHOLE. I'm against it being used as a weapon to rob a man of dignity when he never consented to becoming a father in the first place. Guys who Consent to go into fatherhood have a responsibility to the child. I'm assuming your ex did this so this doesn't include him. But guys who get dragged kicking and screaming into it should be spared. At least this way there would be less unwanted kids in the world.

that article is an utterly shameless appeal to emotion. if you actually read the whole thing, it goes on to clarify that her subjection to the description of her child was a mistake on behalf of that particular practice, and that the law itself makes a distinction between unfortunate cases such as the one in question, in which the child has some kind of untreatable abnormality, and the usual cases in which the decision to abort is entirely self-concerned on the part of the would-be parents. as a pro-lifer, i believe that that distinction is important.

also, i've only skimmed the thread, so someone might have beaten me to the punch here, but contraception is not solely a male responsibility. if a woman gets pregnant because a guy didn't strap up, it's as much her fault as his. i would have thought this was common sense.

It seems that common sense isn't so common these days. Especially on boxingscene.

[madsweeney]

I definitely did, that is why I feel so strongly about the whole condom thing.

I'm not a naive 19 year old girl any more. The whole 'yeah, I love you babe, we're gonna be a family' blah blah thing would probably make me laugh more than it would drop my panties now a days.

But it's just the assumption that men paying child support are 'footing the bill'. You are helping to raise your child.

Hi issue is with the inequality in the decision making of abortions. Women get to choose what they do to their bodies, but their choice affects the man they had sex with (if he wants the child or not). There is a legitimate argument he brings up in that her rights are super-ceding his.