The Case For A Creator Documentary

[Lady Fan]

LMAO. You're funny.
Victor Stenger is biased??...but you can post a rambling pile of doo doo, written by a Vatican somebody, that makes no sense whatsoever (if a brain in a vat can be made to believe its a human reading an article, what if its a computer simulation and isnt real at all? It may think it exists, but in reality it doesnt....hmmmmm...."i think therefore i am" doesnt mean you can prove u exist at all....his first premise is wrong...his argument fails)

"The First Vatican Council taught that the existence of God can be proven by our reason alone:"

I don't think your "Reasoning Cap" was on prior to reading it. Sorry. JAT

[Lady Fan]

How can anyone know that a universe tuned in a completely different way, may or may not be able to produce a completely different form of life?

That is yet to be discovered. However, I really don't think that you've paid much attention to this part of the video. It logically and totally explains that the fine tuning argument is valid and that it points to God's existence. Here:

Start @ 03:08

Part 4


This again explains the mind-boggling precision and perfection of God's power and might. Any attempt to dispel this obvious evidence for the existence of an Intelligent Being (GOD) by anyone would be frivolous and illogical. JAT

[The Noose]

"The First Vatican Council taught that the existence of God can be proven by our reason alone:"

I don't think your "Reasoning Cap" was on prior to reading it. Sorry. JAT

You cannot prove gods existence by reason alone. Like i said, his first premise is wrong. Reason tells us there is no way of knowing this isnt just a dream.

That is yet to be discovered. However, I really don't think that you've paid much attention to this part of the video. It logically and totally explains that the fine tuning argument is valid and that it points to God's existence. Here:

Start @ 03:08

Part 4


This again explains the mind-boggling precision and perfection of God's power and might. Any attempt to dispel this obvious evidence for the existence of an Intelligent Being (GOD) by anyone would be frivolous and illogical. JAT

It doesnt address what i asked.
How can anyone know that a universe tuned in a completely different way, may or may not be able to produce a completely different form of life?
Plus experiments have been done that have proved fine tuning to be false.
Plus
Why would a god make the universe designed for life yet make almost every part of the universe totally hostile to all life?

If life is a miracle, then why did God need the physical laws to be able to sustain life? Miracles by their definition are independent of the physical laws of the universe. God could have made the universe anyway he wanted, and still created life via a miracle.

Why would God of created a universe thats taken 16 billion years to produce the first human beings, during which 99% of all life has become extinct?

The card trick lady shpwed the calculations for fine tuning are invalid. Joker or no joker, that wasnt the point. You seem to not understand she was using the pack of cards as an example.

[Lady Fan]

You cannot prove gods existence by reason alone. Like i said, his first premise is wrong. Reason tells us there is no way of knowing this isnt just a dream.

Yes you can. The first premise is correct. Your failure to be enlightened by what you've read only shows that you have flaws in your reasoning.

[Lady Fan]

It doesnt address what i asked.
How can anyone know that a universe tuned in a completely different way, may or may not be able to produce a completely different form of life?

I've explained earlier that this remains to be discovered.

Plus experiments have been done that have proved fine tuning to be false.

Were those experiments conducted by non-biased, non-Atheist affiliated organizations? Please provide links to these "legitimate sources." And please don't use any more "Smug" characters for demonstration purposes.

[The Noose]

Yes you can. The first premise is correct. Your failure to be enlightened by what you've read only shows that you have flaws in your reasoning.

Ive already said we could just be a computer simulation who is programmed to believe we exist. Explain to how that is wrong. Its one of the biggest questions in philosophy. How do we know ww exist? Ur brain in a vat nonsense is idiotic.

[The Noose]

I've explained earlier that this remains to be discovered.

Exactly. U dont know, therefore u cant talk about probability because u cant compare our universe to any other.

Were those experiments conducted by non-biased, non-Atheist affiliated organizations? Please provide links to these "legitimate sources." And please don't use any more "Smug" characters for demonstration purposes.

You're being a hypocrite. U post an article written by a vativan counsellor, yet demand a non atheist source? Lol. How foolish. It's ironic how u can talk about reason. Lol.
In 1989 a team the Technion Israel Institute of Technology in Haifa showed that , actually, the carbon 12 energy level could have been signifcantly different and still resulted in the heavy elements required for life.

Answer me this; we would a god capable of miracles require a finely tuned universe for life to exist?? JAT (u don't like the taste of your own medicine do u? )

[Lady Fan]

Answer me this; we would a god capable of miracles require a finely tuned universe for life to exist?? JAT (u don't like the taste of your own medicine do u? )

Without a finely tuned universe that God has provided, you and I would not be here today. There is a balance of highly critical conditions that must be met in order to sustain intelligent lifeforms in our universe. This is a "miracle" in itself. Now, by reasoning alone, one can logically come to the conclusion that chance did not create this balance. Only an Omniscient and Omnipotent Supernatural Creator (GOD) is capable of manipulating these exacting conditions. I don't see how there can be a logical answer that will dismiss the reality of God's existence.

[The Noose]

Without a finely tuned universe that God has provided, you and I would not be here today. There is a balance of highly critical conditions that must be met in order to sustain intelligent lifeforms in our universe. This is a "miracle" in itself. Now, by reasoning alone, one can logically come to the conclusion that chance did not create this balance. Only an Omniscient and Omnipotent Supernatural Creator (GOD) is capable of manipulating these exacting conditions. I don't see how there can be a logical answer that will dismiss the reality of God's existence.

Stephen Hawking

"It is not necessary to invoke God to light the blue touch paper and set the universe going."

“If the rate of expansion one second after the Big Bang had been smaller by even one part in a hundred thousand million million, the universe would have collapsed before it ever reached its present size...BUT...

....The rate of expansion of the universe [in the inflationary model] would automatically become very close to the critical rate determined by the energy density of the universe. This could then explain why the rate of expansion is still so close to the critical rate, without having to assume that the initial rate of expansion of the universe was very carefully chosen.”

There is also no way to disprove the idea that our universe is one of an infinite number with different 'tunings'. That would logically dismiss the fine tuning notion.

Plus
In 1989 a team the Technion Israel Institute of Technology in Haifa showed that , actually, the carbon 12 energy level could have been signifcantly different and still resulted in the heavy elements required for life.


Listen, it comes down to this. Im not saying science proves there is no God. It takes faith to believe in God. Science deals with the physical world. God is not physical. I see it like this; people didnt understand earthquakes and lightening, and thought logically it can only be an all powerful deity. They were wrong. And i dont have faith that God is out there somewhere, only provable through incredibly complex science, or deep philosophical arguments. Maybe he is. But it doesnt make any sense to me.

[Lady Fan]

Do you believe He has always existed? If so, why can't matter / energy / space have always existed? If you believe at some point God didn't exist then you must believe something can come from nothing.

Here, these will best explain why God has always existed.


God exists in timeless eternity
How does God acting before time began get around the problem of God's creation? There are two possible interpretations of these verses. One is that God exists outside of time. Since we live in a universe of cause and effect, we naturally assume that this is the only way in which any kind of existence can function. However, the premise is false. Without the dimension of time, there is no cause and effect, and all things that could exist in such a realm would have no need of being caused, but would have always existed. Therefore, God has no need of being created, but, in fact, created the time dimension of our universe specifically for a reason - so that cause and effect would exist for us. However, since God created time, cause and effect would never apply to His existence.

God exists in multiple dimensions of time
The second interpretation is that God exists in more than one dimension of time. Things that exist in one dimension of time are restricted to time's arrow and are confined to cause and effect. However, two dimensions of time form a plane of time, which has no beginning and no end and is not restricted to any single direction. A being that exists in at least two dimensions of time can travel anywhere in time and yet never had a beginning, since a plane of time has no starting point. Either interpretation leads one to the conclusion that God has no need of having been created.

Why can't the universe be eternal?
Without a Doubt: Answering the 20 Toughest Faith Questions The idea that God can be eternal leads us to the idea that maybe the universe is eternal, and, therefore, God doesn't need to exist at all. Actually, this was the prevalent belief of atheists before the observational data of the 20th century strongly refuted the idea that the universe was eternal. This fact presented a big dilemma for atheists, since a non-eternal universe implied that it must have been caused. Maybe Genesis 1:1 was correct! Not to be dismayed by the facts, atheists have invented some metaphysical "science" that attempts to explain away the existence of God. Hence, most atheistic cosmologists believe that we see only the visible part of a much larger "multiverse" that randomly spews out universes with different physical parameters.2 Since there is no evidence supporting this idea (nor can there be, according to the laws of the universe), it is really just a substitute "god" for atheists. And, since this "god" is non-intelligent by definition, it requires a complex hypothesis, which would be ruled out if we use Occam's razor, which states that one should use the simplest logical explanation for any phenomenon. Purposeful intelligent design of the universe makes much more sense, especially based upon what we know about the design of the universe.

What does science say about time?
When Stephen Hawking, George Ellis, and Roger Penrose extended the equations for general relativity to include space and time, the results showed that time has a beginning - at the moment of creation (i.e., the Big Bang).3 In fact, if you examine university websites, you will find that many professors make such a claim - that the universe had a beginning and that this beginning marked the beginning of time (see The Universe is Not Eternal, But Had A Beginning). Such assertions support the Bible's claim that time began at the creation of the universe.

Conclusion
God has no need to have been created, since He exists either outside time (where cause and effect do not operate) or within multiple dimensions of time (such that there is no beginning of God's plane of time). Hence God is eternal, having never been created. Although it is possible that the universe itself is eternal, eliminating the need for its creation, observational evidence contradicts this hypothesis, since the universe began to exist a finite ~13.7 billion years ago. The only possible escape for the atheist is the invention of a kind of super universe, which can never be confirmed experimentally (hence it is metaphysical in nature, and not scientific).

http://www.godandscience.org/apologe...eated_god.html