Israel “at war” as Hamas fires thousand of rockets in surprise attack.

[jaded]

And anti-Zionist in not the same as anti-semitic.

You are clearly both, and the only one flooding this thread with propaganda that supports it.

[Citizen Koba]

You are clearly both, and the only one flooding this thread with propaganda that supports it.

Absolutely not. Point to a single instance where I attack either the Jewish faith and Jews as a whole..

I have no issue at all with Jews or the Jewish faith... if you'd followed my posts at all over time you would know that in general I tatke a very dim view of all states whether it's Israel Russia, the Uk, The US, China, India or wherever the eff else you choose to name.

I'm pro-people everywhere but more or less anti-state everywhere.

israel is a state not a people or a faith.

Citicising the actions of the Isreali state is not criticising jews or Judaism as a whole.

And why the eff is the pointing out genuine Isreali breaches of international law 'propaganda' but pointing out Palestinian crimes not 'propaganda'?

Would it help if I post the views of some anti Israeli Jews - and there's thousands of em?

You gonna call that anti-Semtiic propaganda too?

[Citizen Koba]

Oh yeah and jaded

I gonna be anti-Hindu for criticising Indian atrocities against Muslim minorities?

I gonna be Islamophobic for hating on the Saudis for their crimes or the Indonesians for their crimes against the Timorese

I anti-Buddhist for my criticism of Myanmar for their genocide of the Rohingya?

No? Thought not.


Never cross your mind that maybe it's your choice of media that's horrendously biased rather than mine? You got some objective way of proving one way or another?

Muthafkrs be calling Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch and the Red Cross 'antisemitic' now huh? That should tell any reasonable person all they need to know about the bias here.

[Citizen Koba]

Once again b'tselem - Israeli civl rights organisation...

or is posting their stuff anti-semitic?

https://www.btselem.org/

What about Breaking the silence

Former IDF soldiers speaking of their shoot on sight orders and absues of the civilain population of the occupied territories

https://www.breakingthesilence.org.il/

[Madison Boxing]

Once again b'tselem - Israeli civl rights organisation...

or is posting their stuff anti-semitic?

https://www.btselem.org/

What about Breaking the silence

Former IDF soldiers speaking of their shoot on sight orders and absues of the civilain population of the occupied territories

https://www.breakingthesilence.org.il/

come on man you arent fooling anyone, everyone has seen what you have been writing

[Left Hook Tua]

I have an agenda too

I'm just waiting for the jews to hold Israel long enough for Jesus to come back

Then all the jews and Muslims can meet their judgment by jesus

[Citizen Koba]

'Because Hamas is a different kind of enemy, one that does not fit the usual theories of war. Put simply, it does not mind if its own people die.


Recall how counter-terrorist strategists had to rethink all that they knew when first confronted with suicide bombers. It’s hard to deter a terrorist who does not fear death. That’s true writ large for an organisation that has explicitly said it is “proud to sacrifice martyrs”. Not its own leaders, mind, many of whom live in safety and, reportedly, great luxury in Qatar and elsewhere. But the ordinary men and women of Gaza.

This is why Hamas has spent hundreds of millions of dollars – much of it international aid money – not on basic services for Gazans, but on building and equipping a network of underground tunnels that, again, it has explicitly said are exclusively for its own use. As one Hamas leader put it, ordinary people in Gaza who need protection should look to the UN.

It’s this that explains why, whatever truth eventually emerges about the recent role of the al-Shifa hospital, a former director of a major aid organisation operating in Gaza testified this week that “it was broadly suspected/understood as far back as 2014 that Hamas used the al-Shifa hospital complex as a command centre and base for operations” – just as it has long been understood that Hamas is not afraid to use schools or UN buildings when it comes to raining rockets down on Israel. The calculation for Hamas is that either Israel hits back, killing innocents – thereby losing legitimacy in the eyes of the world – or it does not, thereby allowing Hamas to keep firing. Either way, Hamas wins.

The ideology of violent jihadism plays a part here, and that too is often overlooked. There are plenty in the west eager to see Hamas simply as a resistance movement, in the noble tradition of national liberation struggles. But this fails to reckon with Hamas’s doctrinal commitment. Violent jihadism is not a rhetorical pose: it is Hamas’s animating creed. It truly believes that when one of its own people dies – even a child killed in an airstrike – they go straight to paradise as a martyr.

Against an enemy that thinks this way, the usual pressures don’t work. If you doubt the devotion, force yourself to listen to the phone call made by one of the Hamas murderers of 7 October to his parents back in Gaza. Hear his pride, his ecstatic joy, as he tells them he has “killed Jews” with his own hands, including a husband and wife and eight others. “Dad, 10 with my own hands!”'

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...yahu-ceasefire

Yeah. Read that article... it does a good job of explaining the utterly intractable nature of this problem

That's why I can't possibly imagine any solution to this whole tragic mess.

Only thing is it's an article that pointed the finger at both sides and you only elected to post half of it....

For Biden and co are overlooking the fact that Netanyahu and his coalition are utterly opposed to the very arrangement Israel’s western allies advocate. This is the most rightwing government in Israel’s history. It includes junior ministers who fantasise about flattening Gaza with a nuclear bomb or repopulating it with the Jewish settlements that were uprooted in 2005, and senior ministers who are, even now, wrecking any chance of cooperation with the only body that could plausibly fill the vacuum in a post-Hamas Gaza: the Palestinian Authority.


If it’s not finance minister and documented bigot Bezalel Smotrich refusing to transfer tax revenues to the authority, thereby denying officials their salaries and increasing the chances they will be recruited by Hamas, it’s the ultra-nationalist with a terrorist conviction, public security minister Itamar Ben-Gvir, handing out guns to extremists known to be dangerous, all in the name of self-defence. The pair of them are heroes to the West Bank settlers who have been engaged in an under-reported campaign of violence and harassment against Palestinians – with at least 190 killed since 7 October – as if bent on igniting a third intifada in that occupied territory. Netanyahu does nothing to rein them in, because he needs their parliamentary votes to stay in power – and he needs to stay in power to be sure he stays out of jail, as he stands trial on corruption charges.

Simple fact is that Nethanayhu has always been against a two state solution - thats pretty much his platfoem and despite one or two platidues for the Wesern press - was never going to allow it.

Besides there's almost nothing meaningful left for the Paestinans to make a country out of now anyway - its criss-crossed military zones and Israeli settlements.

So no two states.

Israel would never have aone state model in which the overwhelming majority were not Jewish.

Most Palestinanians just say they want their whole country back.

so no one stae solution either.

What eslese is there?

Ethnic cleanising - mass forced eviction or terroising the population into flight (as in the Nakhba)

or

Mass murder.

Whch is best you reckon?

[jaded]

Absolutely not. Point to a single instance where I attack either the Jewish faith and Jews as a whole..

I have no issue at all with Jews or the Jewish faith... if you'd followed my posts at all over time you would know that in general I tatke a very dim view of all states whether it's Israel Russia, the Uk, The US, China, India or wherever the eff else you choose to name.

I'm pro-people everywhere but more or less anti-state everywhere.

israel is a state not a people or a faith.

Citicising the actions of the Isreali state is not criticising jews or Judaism as a whole.

And why the eff is the pointing out genuine Isreali breaches of international law 'propaganda' but pointing out Palestinian crimes not 'propaganda'?

Would it help if I post the views of some anti Israeli Jews - and there's thousands of em?

You gonna call that anti-Semtiic propaganda too?

You can't separate the fact that Zionism was and is the establishment of a Jewish homeland, and to be against that is to be against Jewish people, and nobody in this thread is more passionately against that than you, who zealously promotes it. The purpose of Zionism was to provide a safe-haven from antisemitism.

[Citizen Koba]

come on man you arent fooling anyone, everyone has seen what you have been writing

The fuck? I literally got no ill will towards Jews at all.

I think the State of Israel is responsible for some appalling human rights abuses and I've said so.

Ain't my fault if people like the wit to unserstanbd the distinction I'm making.

What I actually think is happening ain't that people aren't understanding though it's simply that they know accusing someone on the left of antisemitism is much the same as accusing someone on the right of racism - a good way of shutting down those whose opinions you don't like.

So kinda what I'm saying is that I think you're a cancel culture *****.

[Citizen Koba]

You can't separate the fact that Zionism was and is the establishment of a Jewish homeland, and to be against that is to be against Jewish people, and nobody in this thread is more passionately against that than you, who zealously promotes it.

yes I can. That's absolutely a false equivalence.

You want me to post some interviews with anti-Zionist jews?


But you really really don't understand where I'm coming from.

I'm not trying to dehumanise the Israelis I'm trying to humanise the Palestinians

Besides which I do think the Jewish people deserved a homeland - I've said that as well.

The jews are about the most oppressed and discriminated against people in the history of mankind - well at least of those that have survived.

If anyone deserved a homeland of their own and security it's the Jews.

it's just the way they went about it...

perhaps there never was a good way.

whereever they went would be someone else's home.

And as I've said many times I don't even blame em particularly.

if the only way to ensure my families safety and survival was to break into someone else house and kick them out into the winter, then yes I'd probably do it.

Thats' the choice the Israelis made.

Jabotinsky wrote that colonised people always fight to the bitter end.

Dayan said he understood and forgave their hatred

Ben-Gurion said if he was an arab he'd never agree to peace

the price they're going to pay is that they may have to commit their own genocide - or at least ethnic cleansing on a massive scale - to ensure their own security in perpetuity.

Be careful when you fight monsters etc etc..

Except the Palestinans weren't monsters. Not at first anyway.

Berutalise any man enough and he'll become a brute

What the Palestinans did on Oct 7th was terrible

What the Israelis do every single day is terrible

The Palestinians ain't monsters man. nor are they cockroaches to be exterminated.

They're every bit as human as you or me. Every bit as human as the Jews.

I just feel like some people on here may have lost sight of that.