41% of high school students in inner city Baltimore earn below a 1.0 GPA

[Fists_of_Fury]

So how would that work then? Is that a proposal for a solution? What form would that take... Depriving them of the money to look after their kids? Sterilisation? Imprisonment? You tell me.

These are people who realistically have a low prospect of ever owning their own home or even breaking out of the poverty trap even if they work in the shitty minimum wage jobs available to many of 'em 60 hours a week for ever.. In the present economic climate when even middle class whites are feeling the pinch the prospects for their kids are even worse.

What hope would you give them? What investment do they have in this society and system of social organisation? You gonna try to tell 'em you're all in this together? That if they just work hard and obey the rules things will get better? Not even most white people believe that any more, man.

How about I don't give a sheeit about them or anyone else! I shouldn't worry about providing for them or the family they can't take care of. That is their problem, not mine. I shouldn't be robbed through taxation to help them. Most don't provide society with much anyway. Maybe they give up those kids for adoption or get forced to since they can't provide and are unfit? Maybe they get a job and provide for themselves? Sterilization sounds wonderful when the flipside is robbing me to provide for them. If you are so concerned why don't you and your ilk help them out and stop robbing those like me to help them!? If they commit crimes then incarcerate them and tell them it's because of THEIR actions, not anything else, that put them behind bars.

I think job placement like a labor ready ran by the government is better than providing "free" cash. Have them pick up trash on roads, clean public restrooms, do janitor services, cut grass, etc... at public places. Have them work on farms for $ and food instead of giving "free" foodstamps. Instead of "free" college how about trade schools? Teach coding? Stop giving out tax credits and extra $ just for having children, it will stop tons from breeding for benefits and $. Basically teach them to be productive instead of giving "free" stuff. Tons want trade schools and coding. My guy Kwame Brown talks about it all the time.

[Chollo Vista]

They have worked across much of Western Europe and Scandinavia, social mobility has increased, kids from the poorest families are statistically more likely to raise their income status over the course of their lifetime as well as generationally. This is utterly predictable... if kids from poor families have access to free healthcare and free education their chances in life improve... there are other factors too but the evidence is very strong that welfare does work if done right.

In the UK and US however social stratification has actually increased as welfare programs and Unionisation have been attacked, as policies favouring business intrests over social welfare have been increasingly adaopted. Why such programs have failed to eefectively lift many of the poorest in the US out of poverty I won't know without more research but I can hazard a few guesses. The question you perhaps ought to be asking yourself before that unsubstantiated claim that 'they don't work' is what society would look like if you removed 'em or had never had 'em.

https://www.weforum.org/reports/glob...ing-inequality

Once again what do you mean by 'taking personal accountability' what does that even mean in practical terms? What's your answer to this problem? Are you proposing ending all welfare programs perhaps.. or you thinking of something more specific here?

Oh yeah, and that 'personal responsibility' argument is just an disingenuous bag of nonsense, a way of blaming the poorest and least able to change society for problems that were heaped on their shoulders. Black folk didn't choose to be effectively ghettoised and they didn't choose to be born into a system in which some degree of unemployment is effectively guaranteed and in which they were bottom of the labour market. How you gonna blame folk for not having jobs if there aren't enough to go around? It's basically just a rehash of the argument that the poor are poor because they deserve to be poor which is beyond absurd under an economic system that is specifically named after it's propensity to concentrate wealth into the hands of a minority.

https://www.thoughtco.com/who-really...elfare-4126592

Koba, he and his ilk are filthy racists and it has nothing to do with "personal accountability, etc".

He hates blacks that are self sufficient and try to work "together", he HATES black leaders that try to deescalate violence and clean up their own neighborhood's; especially if it's done in a way that "they" don't approve of or sign off on; hence, white supremacy.

Put simply, he, Dempsey, 1bad65, etc HATE black people no matter what we do. Especially if we're not being black based off "how they" want us to be black

This is why I come at them so hard

[Citizen Koba]

How about I don't give a sheeit about them or anyone else! I shouldn't worry about providing for them or the family they can't take care of. That is their problem, not mine. I shouldn't be robbed through taxation to help them. Most don't provide society with much anyway. Maybe they give up those kids for adoption or get forced to since they can't provide and are unfit? Maybe they get a job and provide for themselves? Sterilization sounds wonderful when the flipside is robbing me to provide for them. If you are so concerned why don't you and your ilk help them out and stop robbing those like me to help them!? If they commit crimes then incarcerate them and tell them it's because of THEIR actions, not anything else, that put them behind bars.

I think job placement like a labor ready ran by the government is better than providing "free" cash. Have them pick up trash on roads, clean public restrooms, do janitor services, cut grass, etc... at public places. Have them work on farms for $ and food instead of giving "free" foodstamps. Instead of "free" college how about trade schools? Teach coding? Stop giving out tax credits and extra $ just for having children, it will stop tons from breeding for benefits and $. Basically teach them to be productive instead of giving "free" stuff. Tons want trade schools and coding. My guy Kwame Brown talks about it all the time.

The first bit is very noble of you, but fair enough... **** em all, the short term unemployed who might lose their homes without something to tide 'em over, the elderly who might have worked all their lives, those who are actually working but ain't getting enough to live on (an increasingly common phenomenon) simple fact is your society would fall to ****in pieces without some form of social support. And it's more than that... what do you think happens when people ain't got enough to eat, can't feed their kids. You think they just lie there and wait to die? No. You end up with a law and order crisis that costs ten times as much as just paying people to do nothing which at least keeps the economy moving.. Riots, civil disturbance so on **** everyone up, disrupt business and making money which is why every government ever have had some form of welfare program no matter how far back in history you go.

And let's not get into the idea of the social contract, man upon which all societies depend... I know you might not give a shit about anyone else but one day it might be you or one of your loved ones that requires assistance.

As for the last - making people 'work' for their unemployment - it's an argument I've seen many times and it 's similar to the problem of making convicts 'work'... what impact do you think it has on the labour market when you effectively take what could be millions of paying jobs that would provide employment and econmic stimulus and make people do em effectively for free? Think about it. The bit about giving people - especially the youth or longer term unemployed - trade and vocational training though? Great idea.

Some of the issues around reducing benefits to parents I've already covered but the chief consequence is not stopping people having kids but simply making the kids even more deprived and even more likely to cost society more in the long run. Welfare ain't softhearted man, it ain't 'liberal snowflakes' with misplaced kindness, it's pragmatism pure and simple because the costs of not having social support outweigh the costs of having it.


Ha ha... and if you think the government - any government - will reduce your tax bill cos they just hacked into the welfare budget I got a bridge to sell you. It ain't the poor people that are taking your money and eroding the American (and British) middle clases, man. The poor people ain't got the power to do jack shit. Your money's flowing uphill, not down, and it's just gonna carry on getting worse because your government is owned by corporations whose only aim is to increase their own profits...

[Citizen Koba]

Koba, he and his ilk are filthy racists and it has nothing to do with "personal accountability, etc".

He hates blacks that are self sufficient and try to work "together", he HATES black leaders that try to deescalate violence and clean up their own neighborhood's; especially if it's done in a way that "they" don't approve of or sign off on; hence, white supremacy.

Put simply, he, Dempsey, 1bad65, etc HATE black people no matter what we do. Especially if we're not being black based off "how they" want us to be black

This is why I come at them so hard

I know what it is man, ****in both saddens and disgusts me - the 'personal responsibility' argument is just disingenuous bullshit to abrogate responsibility for a societal problem that should have been dealt with decades ago.

Problem is these ****ers are deeply and fundamentally scared, scared and angry. They see the way of life they grew up with starting to crumble and slip away and they want someone - anyone - to blame. They been so heavily indoctrinated for so long they can't see that it's the political and economic system that benfitted 'em for so long finally taking it's price... a voracious monster that will never be satisfied with 'just enough' once the poorest have been bled dry.

I'd almost feel sorry for these mfers if it weren't for their hatred and even though I don't excuse their bigotry I do feel sorry for millions of white working class Americans who are suddenly finding out that they were lied to and are looking around confused and angry, wondering what happened to their job security and their living wages and worrying what's gonna happen to their kids and grandkids.

Stay safe my friend. I think there may be some rough times ahead.

[Dakuwaqa]

I know what it is man, ****in both saddens and disgusts me - the 'personal responsibility' argument is just disingenuous bullshit to abrogate responsibility for a societal problem that should have been dealt with decades ago.

Problem is these ****ers are deeply and fundamentally scared, scared and angry. They see the way of life they grew up with starting to crumble and slip away and they want someone - anyone - to blame. They been so heavily indoctrinated for so long they can't see that it's the political and economic system that benfitted 'em for so long finally taking it's price... a voracious monster that will never be satisfied with 'just enough' once the poorest have been bled dry.

I'd almost feel sorry for these mfers if it weren't for their hatred and even though I don't excuse their bigotry I do feel sorry for millions of white working class Americans who are suddenly finding out that they were lied to and are looking around confused and angry, wondering what happened to their job security and their living wages and worrying what's gonna happen to their kids and grandkids.

Stay safe my friend. I think there may be some rough times ahead.

What do you thinks going to happen?

[Citizen Koba]

What do you thinks going to happen?

Shorter term in the US? I ain't thinking civil war or anything like that, if that's what you mean, although I believe there will be tension and localised violence and I suspect we'll see increasing authoritarainsm as a result. Other than that much the same direction as we've seen already I think, increasing job insecurity and rising costs of living, stagnant wages and perhaps most importantly a crisis of belief in the future. The anger and resentment from the Right wing - particularly White Conservatives seems to be growing or at least isn't abating as many had hoped after Trump departed, problem is the entire infosphere has taken on a life of it's own that actually profits from fueling the resentment and fanning the flames and unfortunately any attempts to clamp down on it are just likely to cause more outrage... these mother****ers genuinely feel like they've been betrayed and wronged. So what we've seen is an increasing radicalisation amongst some conservatives which is likely to result in more violence, most likely the same sorts of terrorist instances we've seen in the past... maybe bombings, maybe some mass shootings, but what it is gonna mean is an America deeply divided at a time when they got even bigger problems looming.

Broader sweeping terms we got a global catastrophe coming... the heatwaves and fires, drought and extreme weather they had sweeping the States is just a taster and getting worse pretty much year on year... and what that's gonna mean is shortages, water at first, food - a lot of cultivatable land is gonna be lost - already is in fact. The planet's cultivatable zone is gonna move Northwards so Russia and Canada may benefit, Siberia in particular might become the world's breadbasket but that kinda leaves the problem of what is effectively an authoritarian state with it's hands on a good chunk of the world's food supply. I'm very much hoping we can kinda pull together a bit before that cos we're likely to see human population movement - a refugee crisis - on a completely unprecedented level... hundreds of millions from the lowest lying regions and drought striken nations. So yeah that.... kinda hoping we can pull together and realise our best chance as a species lies in rational distribution of resources that can help everyone rather than hoarding or even fighting over scarce resources at a national or regional level but I ain't particularly hopeful. Either way the US is gonna be hit hard in a situation where people are already stretched and tens of millions are living pretty much hand to mouth.

mmm. Just read that back and it all sounds pretty pessimistic don't it? Hopefully things won't be as bad as all that and we'll find a way to adjust to the changing climate and start putting human welfare at the top of the agenda... who knows, could be the thing that finally makes us humans pull our shit together.

Let's sing a happy song and just forget about that nonsense hey?

[Chollo Vista]

I know what it is man, ****in both saddens and disgusts me - the 'personal responsibility' argument is just disingenuous bullshit to abrogate responsibility for a societal problem that should have been dealt with decades ago.

Problem is these ****ers are deeply and fundamentally scared, scared and angry. They see the way of life they grew up with starting to crumble and slip away and they want someone - anyone - to blame. They been so heavily indoctrinated for so long they can't see that it's the political and economic system that benfitted 'em for so long finally taking it's price... a voracious monster that will never be satisfied with 'just enough' once the poorest have been bled dry.

I'd almost feel sorry for these mfers if it weren't for their hatred and even though I don't excuse their bigotry I do feel sorry for millions of white working class Americans who are suddenly finding out that they were lied to and are looking around confused and angry, wondering what happened to their job security and their living wages and worrying what's gonna happen to their kids and grandkids.

Stay safe my friend. I think there may be some rough times ahead.

This is why I have a lot of respect for you, Koba.

Very smart man right here

[Fists_of_Fury]

Shorter term in the US? I ain't thinking civil war or anything like that, if that's what you mean, although I believe there will be tension and localised violence and I suspect we'll see increasing authoritarainsm as a result. Other than that much the same direction as we've seen already I think, increasing job insecurity and rising costs of living, stagnant wages and perhaps most importantly a crisis of belief in the future. The anger and resentment from the Right wing - particularly White Conservatives seems to be growing or at least isn't abating as many had hoped after Trump departed, problem is the entire infosphere has taken on a life of it's own that actually profits from fueling the resentment and fanning the flames and unfortunately any attempts to clamp down on it are just likely to cause more outrage... these mother****ers genuinely feel like they've been betrayed and wronged. So what we've seen is an increasing radicalisation amongst some conservatives which is likely to result in more violence, most likely the same sorts of terrorist instances we've seen in the past... maybe bombings, maybe some mass shootings, but what it is gonna mean is an America deeply divided at a time when they got even bigger problems looming.

Broader sweeping terms we got a global catastrophe coming... the heatwaves and fires, drought and extreme weather they had sweeping the States is just a taster and getting worse pretty much year on year... and what that's gonna mean is shortages, water at first, food - a lot of cultivatable land is gonna be lost - already is in fact. The planet's cultivatable zone is gonna move Northwards so Russia and Canada may benefit, Siberia in particular might become the world's breadbasket but that kinda leaves the problem of what is effectively an authoritarian state with it's hands on a good chunk of the world's food supply. I'm very much hoping we can kinda pull together a bit before that cos we're likely to see human population movement - a refugee crisis - on a completely unprecedented level... hundreds of millions from the lowest lying regions and drought striken nations. So yeah that.... kinda hoping we can pull together and realise our best chance as a species lies in rational distribution of resources that can help everyone rather than hoarding or even fighting over scarce resources at a national or regional level but I ain't particularly hopeful. Either way the US is gonna be hit hard in a situation where people are already stretched and tens of millions are living pretty much hand to mouth.

mmm. Just read that back and it all sounds pretty pessimistic don't it? Hopefully things won't be as bad as all that and we'll find a way to adjust to the changing climate and start putting human welfare at the top of the agenda... who knows, could be the thing that finally makes us humans pull our shit together.

Let's sing a happy song and just forget about that nonsense hey?

[Citizen Koba]

Well man, let's just say I genuinely hope that you're right and my pessimistic ass is blowing it all out of proportion. Where are you seeing the US in another ten years? Y'all gonna be round the campfire holding hands and singing Belafonte?

[Fists_of_Fury]

Well man, let's just say I genuinely hope that you're right and my pessimistic ass is blowing it all out of proportion. Where are you seeing the US in another ten years?

A socialists heavenly paradise. All white Conservatives eradicated or enslaved. Green everything. A BBC cuck service for all the loyal Liberal allys, like yourself. A thousand vaccines where there is no more viruses and diseases. No more "mean words" allowed. A thought police like on the movie Minority Report. A thousand new genders. You can identify as anything you want, except a straight white male. Everyone raises everyone else's kids. You can freely loot stores. Pedophilia is now a sexual preference along with rape. Universal basic income of a trillion dollars a year for everyone. The U.S. flag will be the pride flag with the BLM fist. The national anthem will be imagine by John Lennon.