How To Get To Heaven When You Die

[squealpiggy]

If there is a god you can bet he hates white South Africans. Afrikuunts.

[The Noose]

Duh.

Oh boy... For the 1000th time: WE CANNOT KNOW! God's ways are mysterious: someone could be a non-Christian and act fairly, and have his soul saved. Someone could be a Christian and act like a complete assh0le, and have his soul damned. Being a Christian is not a warranty to be saved, you get it? F()ck's sake, after 16 years of church attending you didn't learn this?? Where were you when the priest spoke? Are you deaf and blind by any chance?

Im am deaf actually.
You've gone all angry again. I see no need for juvenile insults. I merely asked a few questions.

Are you saying we cannot know how we can be saved? Then what is the point of the bible?
Does it say in the bible we dont have to follow Christ (be a Christian) to get to heaven?

[squealpiggy]

Im am deaf actually.
You've gone all angry again. I see no need for juvenile insults. I merely asked a few questions.

Are you saying we cannot know how we can be saved? Then what is the point of the bible?
Does it say in the bible we dont have to follow Christ (be a Christian) to get to heaven?

As I have pointed out, when specifics are cited they are silly and the only counter that apologetics have is to make them less and less specific until they are essentially meaningless.

[Nick Name]

Oh yeah? When?

Just about now, for example:

I've heard of people with poor reading comprehension, but poor writing comprehension is quite another thing. Why don't you try again but this time make, you know, sense.

This statement is too weak to be even taken under consideration.

Doubt is the cornerstone of science and technology. You have a computer to write with and an internet to post your writings on because of doubt. The most virtuous apostle was Thomas because he said those immortal words: "Prove it."

Well I have no doubts that I'm a son of God, for example.

The irony here is that I do understand it. You are devoted to something you have accepted thoughtlessly and you are desperately trying to justify it by playing increasingly complicated logic games.

Why on Earth should I do that?

On the other hand you do NOT understand it. You said so yourself. You claimed that NOBODY can understand god. You're wrong of course. But this is an admission that you don't understand.

What are you playing, the snake that bites his own tail? I said you don't understand the ways of God: God works in mysterious ways.

Freud called this "projection". I believe we have already discussed this. My advice is to stop trying to psycho-analyze me. It isn't big, clever or convincing.

HAHA Bull****, you're just mad because I've spoiled you.

I don't think that god exists so to me this statement is meaningless. You, on the other hand, think that god does exist and furthermore is immutable and unknowable so your claim that god cares about me for who I am is basically blasphemy. Enjoy hell, sinner.

You're lacking energy...

There is a disconnect with apologetics. They will hide behind a claim that the sceptic cannot know because their chosen sky-fairy is "unknowable" and in their very next breath will start giving out instructions based on what they claim their god wants.

We cannot know? But we're expected to accept your word for it that you do? How do you even dress yourself in the morning?

Again with your self-pitying weak sarcasm... Helloo! I said we cannot know whether we'll be saved or not: we cannot judge ourselves, only God can. Try and bring better argument next time ok?

[Nick Name]

Im am deaf actually.
You've gone all angry again. I see no need for juvenile insults. I merely asked a few questions.

Alright, can you please ask a question I haven't already answered to at least 5 times?

Are you saying we cannot know how we can be saved? Then what is the point of the bible?[/QUOTE]
I didn't say how, I've said we cannot know whether if we'll be saved or not.
The Bible gives you some hints to live your life decently so that you be eligible for Heaven.

Does it say in the bible we dont have to follow Christ (be a Christian) to get to heaven?[/QUOTE]
Yep:
"Many who are first will be last, and the last will be first.” (Matt 19:30 & also Matt 20:16 & also Mark 10:31) This means that many people who lived a life of sin, misery, sorrow etc. will be saved, and many rich and apparently unimpeachable guys will go to Hell. Why? God knows. You don't know. Neither do I.
http://blog.adw.org/2010/06/many-who...reat-reversal/

Have you got it now or you wanna ask me some more embarassingly useless and predictable questions? You understand now why I went angry at you? 16 years of church attending, two pilgrimages, and you still need to ask me these elementary questions? These are questions worthy of a ******ed illiterate atheist teenager, not an adult man who's been frequenting the church for 16 YEARS. Damn, I was a kid 16 years ago.

[The Noose]

Alright, can you please ask a question I haven't already answered to at least 5 times?

Are you saying we cannot know how we can be saved? Then what is the point of the bible?

I didn't say how, I've said we cannot know whether if we'll be saved or not.
The Bible gives you some hints to live your life decently so that you be eligible for Heaven.

Does it say in the bible we dont have to follow Christ (be a Christian) to get to heaven?

Yep:
"Many who are first will be last, and the last will be first.” (Matt 19:30 & also Matt 20:16 & also Mark 10:31) This means that many people who lived a life of sin, misery, sorrow etc. will be saved, and many rich and apparently unimpeachable guys will go to Hell. Why? God knows. You don't know. Neither do I.
http://blog.adw.org/2010/06/many-who...reat-reversal/

Have you got it now or you wanna ask me some more embarassingly useless and predictable questions? You understand now why I went angry at you? 16 years of church attending, two pilgrimages, and you still need to ask me these elementary questions? These are questions worthy of a ******ed illiterate atheist teenager, not an adult man who's been frequenting the church for 16 YEARS. Damn, I was a kid 16 years ago.

(i stopped going to church when i was 16, so i havent been going to church as an adult)
No i cant really understand why you're so angry. Your first post in this thread was angry, and you seem to be getting very worked up over a discussion on the internet.
This is the lounge. People come here just to chill. Just thought id remind you.

Anyway, my point before about understanding the Bible seems relevant in what you just said. You interpret that passage differently than what ive heard previously. Ive seen it understood as 'its never too late to accept Christ' (i.e. become a Christian). So that doesnt really address what ive asked.

Also, have you really been asked that question many times before in this thread? From what ive read i dont believe thats true.



And if in your belief you dont have to be a Christian to be saved, what do you make of these Bible quotes;

"Jesus said to him, 'I am the way, and the truth, and the life; NO ONE COME TO THE FATHER BUT THROUGH ME.'" John 14:6

"And there is salvation in NO ONE ELSE; for there is NO OTHER NAME UNDER HEAVEN that has been given among men BY WHICH WE MUST BE SAVED." Acts 4:12

"For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever BELIEVES IN HIM shall not perish, but have eternal life. For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be SAVED THROUGH HIM. He who BELIEVES IN HIM is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God."

"He saved us, NOT ON THE BASIS OF DEEDS WHICH WE HAVE DONE IN RIGHTEOUSNESS, but according to His mercy." Tit 3:5

Accept His free gift (i.e recognize that only by Christ's work can a man have the righteousness of Christ credited to him so that he can enter heaven) and you will be a Christian, guaranteed to go to heaven. "[B]ut the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. Rom 6:23 .

Just curious, how long have you been a Christian? According to the quotes i found, your answer to my basic question doesnt seem right.

So you can see although i have attended church etc etc, simple questions about Christianity arent easily answered.

Simple questions. Theres no need to get all angry. And remember according to you...

Someone could be a Christian and act like a complete assh0le, and have his soul damned.

...So stop acting like an as.shole, you might condemn yourself to hell.

You can thank me later. When you calm down.

[squealpiggy]

This is a familiar pattern. Nick Name has had every single one of his arguments thoroughly demolished and then claims victory because of lack of understanding. Your incoherent mumbling and gross absurdities have painted you as a clown, and your insistence that you have somehow won is compounding the issue.

First rule of holes, boy.

[Nick Name]

This is a familiar pattern. Nick Name has had every single one of his arguments thoroughly demolished and then claims victory because of lack of understanding. Your incoherent mumbling and gross absurdities have painted you as a clown, and your insistence that you have somehow won is compounding the issue.

First rule of holes, boy.

Still mad at me because I've spolied your weak points...

[Nick Name]

(i stopped going to church when i was 16, so i havent been going to church as an adult)

Ahh, here falls the dummy: if you probably had frequented the church as an adult, you'd have had the chance to mature with your Faith.
But instead you just went to the church because your parents probably compelled you to go, and soon as you've been old enough to choose for yourself, you decided to "break free" from religious constrictions. Isn't that correct?

No I cant really understand why you're so angry. Your first post in this thread was angry, and you seem to be getting very worked up over a discussion on the internet.
This is the lounge. People come here just to chill. Just thought id remind you.

"Oh please Nick, stop picking on me..."
Blunt ass... Oh, I beg your pardon for being alive, Noose.

Anyway, my point before about understanding the Bible seems relevant in what you just said. You interpret that passage differently than what ive heard previously. Ive seen it understood as 'its never too late to accept Christ' (i.e. become a Christian). So that doesnt really address what ive asked.

That might be also a good interpretation. But I suggest talking about it with a priest.

Also, have you really been asked that question many times before in this thread? From what ive read i dont believe thats true.

Look in the previous posts... I said many times that we can't understand scientifically and rationally how God works.
This is common in physics also: think about electricity: we know that electricity is a form of energy, we know its effects (it produces heat, light, it can hurt if you come in contact with it), but we can't touch electricity, and we sure can't see it. We know it's there because we see its effects. Same goes with God: I know he's there because I've seen His influence on my life.

And if in your belief you dont have to be a Christian to be saved, what do you make of these Bible quotes;

Well, as I've already said before, the writings always give some good hints to reach salvation.

Just curious, how long have you been a Christian? According to the quotes i found, your answer to my basic question doesnt seem right.

I've been raised a Catholic, but didn't really believe/cared about religion until a couple of years ago.

So you can see although i have attended church etc etc, simple questions about Christianity arent easily answered.

Nobody can answer you if you don't ask. Ask the right questions to the right people and you'll find the answers that you want to find. I'm not a priest, so I can't tell you more than a bit about religion... Ask a preist and he'll tell you, it's his job. Oh, and see to find a good priest, not an assh0le.

Simple questions. Theres no need to get all angry.

Why? You're gonna tell the principal? eheheheh

You can thank me later. When you calm down.

Thank you of what? Of being a wussy? I'd have preferred you being a little more ballsy actually, but it's no big deal anyway

[alza1988]

http://www.biblegateway.com/versions/