The deadlift and boxing

[Ray Corso]

Hey goober do you actually know any "top amateurs and pros"? hahahaha

I never said weight training was bad, I did say for a beginner it would down on
my list to add in. I used weights in my personal training and used them in my gym.
You knuckleheads need to read posts before you jump in, your wrong most of the times and this is another one!

Take a pill and chill, as for the name calling it's you goober it's all you could do!

Ray.

[juggernaut666]

Hey goober do you actually know any "top amateurs and pros"? hahahaha

I never said weight training was bad, I did say for a beginner it would down on
my list to add in. I used weights in my personal training and used them in my gym.
You knuckleheads need to read posts before you jump in, your wrong most of the times and this is another one!

Take a pill and chill, as for the name calling it's you goober it's all you could do!

Ray.

what do you consider beginner?

[Facade]

And just how the **** is Ray Corso involved in a conversation regarding any form of S&C?

Ray you are a dinosaur.. Your opinion is utterly worthless here.

If I want to learn something about "methods" or "techniques" or something like that, then I'd understand your input, but you've nothing valuable to add here at all because even though the rest of us here have a difference of opinion, we understand there's this thing called "sports-science" which helps guide fact from fiction.

MY opinion is there are some negative connotations of weights and some obviously positive as well, which can and have been addressed over the years, and guess what.. They're still here aren't they?

The mere fact alone that MOST top amateur and professional boxers utilise some form of weight training is TOTAL proof that you have no idea what your talking about.

Get back to the retirement village Ray.. You have your boules trophies to mull over now old man.

Elroy lol

You argued earlier that someone can get into a heavier weight class just by doing the deadlift. Anyone who seriously argues something like that, still has much to learn. I think Ray deserves more respect than he's getting in this thread. If people apparently insist on not doing that, then the arguments have to be rock solid. Unfortunately they are not.

The arguments being given in the last 2 pages of this thread are actually quite poor in general. One of the worst points made is one by Juggernaut stating that Klitschko and some other boxers are muscular and yet have speed. Therefore this speed must be caused by their strength routine. ("(...) guys like Wilder ,Haye and Klitchko fast ,hard exellent punchers due to lean muscles (...)"). Quite an astonishing conclusion for people that say they love science so much. You can't conclude on the mere fact that someone is muscular that his speed must be caused by his muscles/weight lifting/whatever.

There have been studies done on the impact of weight training on athletic performance, but not that much is known about how weight training specifically impacts boxing. Where punching power really comes from for instance is hardly scientifically explained. This point is made clear in this literature review into the subject: http://journals.lww.com/nsca-scj/Ful...on=LoginFailed. The review states: "No studies were found that explored in depth the impact of strength and conditioning practice on punching force." Ï recommend reading the review if you're interested in this subject by the way. It gives a good nuanced image of current knowledge in my opinion.

Ray's point is accurate. Weight training can have its place in a boxing routine. It would be a mistake to think however that it can replace it. Especially as sufficient correlation has been shown between technique and punching power (see the earlier mentioned review) and none between the correlation between strength training and punching power.

[juggernaut666]

You argued earlier that someone can get into a heavier weight class just by doing the deadlift. Anyone who seriously argues something like that, still has much to learn. I think Ray deserves more respect than he's getting in this thread. If people apparently insist on not doing that, then the arguments have to be rock solid. Unfortunately they are not.

The arguments being given in the last 2 pages of this thread are actually quite poor in general. One of the worst points made is one by Juggernaut stating that Klitschko and some other boxers are muscular and yet have speed. Therefore this speed must be caused by their strength routine. ("(...) guys like Wilder ,Haye and Klitchko fast ,hard exellent punchers due to lean muscles (...)"). Quite an astonishing conclusion for people that say they love science so much. You can't conclude on the mere fact that someone is muscular that his speed must be caused by his muscles/weight lifting/whatever.


Do you know what a façade really is?Well its not me!

There have been studies done on the impact of weight training on athletic performance, but not that much is known about how weight training specifically impacts boxing. Where punching power really comes from for instance is hardly scientifically explained. This point is made clear in this literature review into the subject: http://journals.lww.com/nsca-scj/Ful...on=LoginFailed. The review states: "No studies were found that explored in depth the impact of strength and conditioning practice on punching force." Ï recommend reading the review if you're interested in this subject by the way. It gives a good nuanced image of current knowledge in my opinion.

Ray's point is accurate. Weight training can have its place in a boxing routine. It would be a mistake to think however that it can replace it. Especially as sufficient correlation has been shown between technique and punching power (see the earlier mentioned review) and none between the correlation between strength training and punching power.

Which is why I said its how you train so lets stop the pretzel twising to suit your ignorance...ray concluded specifically that weight lifting is for bodybuilding not sure what that link is and really I can include SEVERAl ones if not dozens that cant argue weight lifting impacting speed on any combat sport....you guys are laughably dumb to even keep challenging new time data to non existing ones from when no data was concluded...lets talk real !This is the problem ,99% of you guys never lifted weights and just boxed I included both and have done so over 20 years until then take a seat!Its like Ray trying to tell me about martial arts or MMA two things he knows 100% nothing about.The real problem here isn't the info its the ppl who say what works and doesn't without experiance and that's Ray on this thread,just because someone dint do it,doesnt mean its not useful.


Do you know what a FACADE really is ?well its not me or anyone I agree with on here.I think Ray may have pm/d you and paid you to say such foolishness to tell me I have a weak point because I have made a few points of certain fighters who are extremely fast and heavy at the speed which they throw at?

[Facade]

Big words but not much merit. I'm not challenging any data. I'm actually giving you the current data. None of which support your claims. I don't give a **** how long you've trained. When you claim hundreds of studies support your argument while in reality none do, you're talking ****.

Not that it's relevant, but I have done both as well at the same time so I know perfectly what I'm talking about. Another thing you just assume without any evidence I suppose, just like everything else. You talk a lot of ****, but in reality you don't have a clue what you're talking about.

[juggernaut666]

Big words but not much merit. I'm not challenging any data. I'm actually giving you the current data. None of which support your claims. I don't give a **** how long you've trained. When you claim hundreds of studies support your argument while in reality none do, you're talking ****.

Not that it's relevant, but I have done both as well at the same time so I know perfectly what I'm talking about. Another thing you just assume without any evidence I suppose, just like everything else. You talk a lot of ****, but in reality you don't have a clue what you're talking about.

If you're referring to me well sorry but theres a thing called reality and fantasy....you dope that is all. I have sports science alone with incoorporating the actual training in the combat they choose to do. you never even tought anyone how to throw a real effective jab ,ive had,actually with REAL champions guys like you come on forums and act ,I actually been there..

[Facade]

If you're referring to me well sorry but theres a thing called reality and fantasy....you dope that is all. I have sports science alone with incoorporating the actual training in the combat they choose to do. you never even tought anyone how to throw a real effective jab ,ive had,actually with REAL champions guys like you come on forums and act ,I actually been there..

Who else could I possibly be referring to? no wonder you post such ******ed baseless claims if things this simple require additional explanation. I've quoted you so you can be absolutely sure that I'm talking to you.

You trained champions lol.... there is indeed a thing called reality and fantasy. That's why you are probably locked up in a mental institution. You can't really see the difference anymore.

[juggernaut666]

Who else could I possibly be referring to? no wonder you post such ******ed baseless claims if things this simple require additional explanation. I've quoted you so you can be absolutely sure that I'm talking to you.

You trained champions lol.... there is indeed a thing called reality and fantasy. That's why you are probably locked up in a mental institution. You can't really see the difference anymore.

Well little kid I trained world champ kick boxers on striking you fool,i still do....instead of talking B.s why not consult Ray then come back for more punishment? Again stick to the topics as I hear you may get banned or warned ...well if it applies to me I guees you too?this is basically you.. the current data is your still a moron.

[Facade]

Come with something relevant and I'll be happy to respond. I think my initial point has been clear. It's not my problem that you are unable to refute it. If and/or when you do I'll respond on topic.

[juggernaut666]

Come with something relevant and I'll be happy to respond. I think my initial point has been clear. It's not my problem that you are unable to refute it. If and/or when you do I'll respond on topic.

Oh I and the many on this post has refuted you ,even those who didn't have to respond to you,because I took care of the obnoxious FALSE data you tried posting it went something like this....


don't worry anybody who is confused can look page by page how dumb you sound about current data?????