hypertrophy

[josh-hill]

theres explosive strength, maximal strength, speed strength and endurance strength

myofibril hypertrophy improves maximal strength while explosive strength is more along the lines of activating more of the muscle.

so like maximal strength really never needs to be more then some one the same weight as you, so body weight exercises are perfect for maximal strength.

i dont think you can distinguish between body weight and weights. both do the same thing - moving against resistance - so they do the same thing. the only thing is with weights you have more control over the movements and weights involved. you also cant say that body weight is a set weight to be used with, because pushups and one handed pullups both use the same weight, but i can tell you pushups are a hell of alot easier than one handed pull ups.

and with plyos you improve explosive strength.

speed strength you improve with practice

and endurance you improve with all of the above.

plyos may increase explosive strength, but explosive strength can only be as much as maximal strength. if explosive strength is how much of the muscle you can recruit at once then if you build more muscle you wont get more explosive .if you build more muscle, and then train your body how to use all of it you will. the key is working every part of the link, not just the most important.

as far as the blocking thats fine motor skills, i cant find the wiki article i read it in. really its just a matter of control over the movement. slow twitch muscles are responsible for fine motor skills, and theres a point when you have too much fast twitch fibers and it degrades your fine motor skills. so you cant stop and start with as much perscision thus you are slower.

i cant see how blocking is fine motor if im totaly honest. its not exactly threading a needle. but building more fast twitch muscle wont mean you have less slow twitch. infact, i think slow twitch usualy grow just as much as fast twitch with most programs anyway. your also forgetting upper body speed is only part of the equation. punching speed is important, but not as important as foot work and fast feet.

so with plyos instead of heavy lifting you build explosive strength activating more of the fibers but with the relatively lighter weight you dont cause an increased fast twitch ratio thus retaining your fine motor skills.

this is why plyos are better.

plyos, calisthenics, cardio, and training is all you need.

that makes sense. plyos are good. like i said, i will do them after i have put on the extra muscle i need to, to teach my body how to utilise all the muscle together for more explosive stregnth. i agree they are all you NEED, but adding in more stuff to make you a more rounded athlete will make you better.

[F l i c k e r]

that is another thought i had. not do any specific hypertrophy work but just eat lots and lift heavy and hope i see gains along the way. do you think this would work?

Well, lifting helps but you can't just lift weights and that's it. I understand you want to get bigger but you have to work your entire body. To remain functional, you have to cross train because lifting weights will make you stronger but only in the motions that you lifted weights. Plyometrics will aid in your explosive work but uses the entire body. Sprinting also helps, ever notice how olympic sprinters have massive legs? To not get bored, you could also run stairs or hills. It's the same benefit but to change things up.

GSP is 5'10" 193lbs walk around weight. He's that big not because of his upper body but because of his legs. He's extremely functional because of his cross training.

There's boxing specific but then there is overall, full body functional. Which GSP has and majority boxers don't have.

[F l i c k e r]

Check that out. But you keep up with your muay thai or boxing, whatever you do. That way you keep up with your skills or "fine motor skills".

I see conditioning different from standing in a ring and throwing punches, or shadow boxing etc. So does GSP.

[josh-hill]

Well, lifting helps but you can't just lift weights and that's it. I understand you want to get bigger but you have to work your entire body. To remain functional, you have to cross train because lifting weights will make you stronger but only in the motions that you lifted weights. Plyometrics will aid in your explosive work but uses the entire body. Sprinting also helps, ever notice how olympic sprinters have massive legs? To not get bored, you could also run stairs or hills. It's the same benefit but to change things up.

GSP is 5'10" 193lbs walk around weight. He's that big not because of his upper body but because of his legs. He's extremely functional because of his cross training.

There's boxing specific but then there is overall, full body functional. Which GSP has and majority boxers don't have.

thankyou for the contribution. creating whole body functionality is exactly the goal i have in mind, like you said, its important. im trying to create a holistic approach to my training that works on everything. hypertrophy is not the be all and end all of my training, its only 1/6th of it. its just the 1/6 that is most controversial and hardest to do in a way that helps athletic performance.

one of my goals with lifting is to add muscle everywhere, not just in the aesthetic places, because i think i have quite alot of imbalances due to surgery and other things that i need to fix.

Check that out. But you keep up with your muay thai or boxing, whatever you do. That way you keep up with your skills or "fine motor skills".

I see conditioning different from standing in a ring and throwing punches, or shadow boxing etc. So does GSP.

thanks alot for the video, i will watch it. im also reading alot of work by joel jamieson about conditioning in a more complete way and i suggest people read up on his work if they can. its helped me alot

[josh-hill]

wow, that jumping is really impressive! do you guys think it translates into fighting power? because i cant see how being that explosive and powerful would not lead to devastating power, however if Spartacus sully is right and fast twitch muscles have no role in punching he is wasting his time. but that beggs the question, why is he so good at what he dose?

i guess the boxers sully posted are pro boxers too. pro boxing is a very very different sport to amateur boxing and muay thai in that it lasts much much longer and is therefore more cardio and slow twitch dominated due to the pure endurance part of it.

but back to my original question, where do you guys think that the hypertrophy stage should some in that cycle i posted first? im thinking hypertrophy should be second, so that when i have added the extra mass (only about 10 lbs to begin with) i can train my body how to use it together and recruit it as a whole through working my CNS in the strength stage. what do you think? i will also edit the first cycle to give more explanation of what i will have in each section

i should also say im sorry if it sounds like im ignoring some of the advice given. im not. i just want to make sure that the information is correct before blindly following it. i appreciate everyones input and if i challenge it its not because im trying to prove anyone wrong, its just because i want to understand it better in my head

[F l i c k e r]

You seem to have a good training plan set.

I understand what your trying to do. So, yes, I think what you got is good. I just advise stretching. Because you'll need it, don't take it lightly, be serious with it. During the 2nd part you listed. You'll want to be able to keep your flexibility post-2nd phase. Because the lifting can reduce the flexibility you have.

Also, the jumping definitely works; plyometrics. It helps him explode forward through takedowns, even his jab and kicks. Even Margarito started something similar to that recently.

GSP does it because he needs his entire body to be functional for combat. Just boxing, you don't necessarily need it. It wouldn't hurt but it's not required.

[josh-hill]

You seem to have a good training plan set.

I understand what your trying to do. So, yes, I think what you got is good. I just advise stretching. Because you'll need it, don't take it lightly, be serious with it. During the 2nd part you listed. You'll want to be able to keep your flexibility post-2nd phase. Because the lifting can reduce the flexibility you have.

Also, the jumping definitely works; plyometrics. It helps him explode forward through takedowns, even his jab and kicks. Even Margarito started something similar to that recently.

GSP does it because he needs his entire body to be functional for combat. Just boxing, you don't necessarily need it. It wouldn't hurt but it's not required.

thankyou. stretching is something i hadnt looked into yet, but thats a good idea. would you suggest doing it on a daily basis in the morning or incorporating it as a part of the warm up / cool down with workouts?

i want my whole body to be functional because i think it all needs to work in unison to be truly effective and reach its maximum potential. not to mention for muay thai i need all of it to be functional.

is that explosiveness in the jumps down to insane fast twitch muscle growth or is it something else? like the ability of the whole muscle to work together?

[F l i c k e r]

thankyou. stretching is something i hadnt looked into yet, but thats a good idea. would you suggest doing it on a daily basis in the morning or incorporating it as a part of the warm up / cool down with workouts?

i want my whole body to be functional because i think it all needs to work in unison to be truly effective and reach its maximum potential. not to mention for muay thai i need all of it to be functional.

is that explosiveness in the jumps down to insane fast twitch muscle growth or is it something else? like the ability of the whole muscle to work together?

Before and after every workout. I stretch 3x. Once before my warmups, then after warmups, then for the cool down. I do it that way because I went through a stint of muscle related injuries (shin splints etc). I start with my tkd stretches, then the other two are basic stretches.

The jumps will build fast twitch muscle due to the nature of the exercise. However, it uses the whole thigh, even the calves, hips, and core. A few reps of that, everything will burn, even the lower back. lol


Cool to see someone into muay thai. You plan to go wmc style or k1?

[josh-hill]

Before and after every workout. I stretch 3x. Once before my warmups, then after warmups, then for the cool down. I do it that way because I went through a stint of muscle related injuries (shin splints etc). I start with my tkd stretches, then the other two are basic stretches.

The jumps will build fast twitch muscle due to the nature of the exercise. However, it uses the whole thigh, even the calves, hips, and core. A few reps of that, everything will burn, even the lower back. lol


Cool to see someone into muay thai. You plan to go wmc style or k1?

ik that sounds cool. my physio said im not allowed yet, but i was thinking about doing yoga or something to build balance, flexibility, stability and strength. i havnt looked into it really yet, but think wmc. mainly because i dont think k1 has a clinch, and clinch fighting is quite interesting to me.

i was going to go into mma and i did a fair bit of ju-juitsu and no-gi sub wrestling, but man, that is the most dangerous sport i know. i don't know a single person that dose it that doesn't have major back, neck or joint problems, and after dislocating both shoulders in 2 weeks and having surgery on one i decided it wasn't worth the risk. its strange how getting knocked out by a flying knee seems safe in comparison to an armbar gone wrong.

[IronBoxer]

You could try the Westside For Skinny Bastards. It revolves around max effort lifts with good hypertrophy work.

http://www.defrancostraining.com/art...rds-part1.html

When I was doing wrestling in HS, my coach had me doing this to put on size during the off season and it worked, with the only difference being in that the muscle you put on won't be all sarcoplasmic hypertrophy.

Avoid the single joint exercises if you can on and stick to the compound ones.