L shape stance

[Spartacus Sully]

the old timers used to call it "Standing in a bucket" because your back foot would be at 90 degrees.

Terrible stance and there is not advantage to it, it just shows poor stance and teaching.

The reason I say this is because it limits your movement and turning of your hips when throwing hooks or straight shots.

Some fighters have even hurt their knee because of this because it locks your knee into position and then when you throw a power shot, it puts stress on the knee.

back foot should be heel off the floor,weight properly distributed and on the ball of your foot so you can turn your shots over.

they also used to call it the stance of the old masters sported by joe gans bob fitzsimmons jack johnson and many more.

"Johnson’s reputation as a defensive master is well deserved. Although both were somewhat unorthodox Johnson’s classic defense was far superior to that of Ali, particularly his ability at blocking punches and countering. Abe Attell said that Johnson fought out of the “perfect stance.” This stance, with the front foot pointed forward, was what heavyweight champion Jack Johnson called, “the key to real scientific boxing” (Ring, April 1941, 16). He noted that the purpose of that stance is that by simply moving the right rear foot, one can move, shift, and pivot in such away as to avoid a blow and always be in perfect position to counter with the full force of one’s body behind the blow."

http://coxscorner.tripod.com/jack_johnson.html

[New England]

it's easy to move away from the right hand

[Spartacus Sully]

it's easy to move away from the right hand

you mean like back and to the left to side step the right or in the direction your back foot is pointing?

like some one had mentioned that its hard moving in the direction your back foot isnt pointed but personally i find that easier and i was wondering if you also felt it hard to move in the direction your back foot isnt pointed or if you ment its easier moving back and to the left to side step rights.

[Cuauhtémoc1520]

they also used to call it the stance of the old masters sported by joe gans bob fitzsimmons jack johnson and many more.

"Johnson’s reputation as a defensive master is well deserved. Although both were somewhat unorthodox Johnson’s classic defense was far superior to that of Ali, particularly his ability at blocking punches and countering. Abe Attell said that Johnson fought out of the “perfect stance.” This stance, with the front foot pointed forward, was what heavyweight champion Jack Johnson called, “the key to real scientific boxing” (Ring, April 1941, 16). He noted that the purpose of that stance is that by simply moving the right rear foot, one can move, shift, and pivot in such away as to avoid a blow and always be in perfect position to counter with the full force of one’s body behind the blow."

http://coxscorner.tripod.com/jack_johnson.html

With all due respect to the old timers, I just don't see the advantage to standing this way and I understand it's taboo to talk negatively against the greats but we need to put things into prespective.

To think Boxing hasn't changed or evolved in over 100 years in naive. It has and for the better, now I'm not saying there's a huge difference to what was going on in the 50's for example and now but in the 10's, 20's and even 30's, there was.

Jack Johnson was a great fighter, for his time. His style wouldn't last very long in the modern game because Boxing has evolved into more of a moving sport. Back in the day, fighters were more brawlers and stood toe to toe in front of each other.

Now before you give examples of guys like Willie Pep, let me stop you. I understand there are exceptions to the rule but to keep your back foot at that angle IMO and in the opinion of many great trainers (Not that I am one) say there is no advantage.

If Jack Johnson would be training today, I guarantee you, you would not see this style of fighting. When you stand with your "foot in a bucket" you CANNOT get full movement and turning of your hips, try it. Stand that way and keep your foot flat on the ground, it inhibits your knee from getting full motion.

The same way a basketball player turns on his pivot foot, it allows him free range of motion and more flexibility to use his knees to move up and down levels.

Just my opinion.

[Saddlebred]

I find myself going into a stance like that when I am sparring with someone noticeably more powerful than me. One of my best friends is about 6'5" 230 and I'm 6'1" 175 but we spar for fun. Granted he destroys me regularly as he can flat out damage me through my guard, but I can hit him hard enough that he will start to think about his punches once I pop him a few good times. But yeah, he is a beast and he destroys me...he happens to be a southpaw, which causes me to move into his shots sometimes. Yeah, probably not the best idea for my health to be tussling with that sasquatch as often as I do.

I agree with the guy above who said people do it because gives you a little extra pop to your right hand and helps you stand your ground a bit more.

[Spartacus Sully]

With all due respect to the old timers, I just don't see the advantage to standing this way and I understand it's taboo to talk negatively against the greats but we need to put things into prespective.

To think Boxing hasn't changed or evolved in over 100 years in naive. It has and for the better, now I'm not saying there's a huge difference to what was going on in the 50's for example and now but in the 10's, 20's and even 30's, there was.

Jack Johnson was a great fighter, for his time. His style wouldn't last very long in the modern game because Boxing has evolved into more of a moving sport. Back in the day, fighters were more brawlers and stood toe to toe in front of each other.

Now before you give examples of guys like Willie Pep, let me stop you. I understand there are exceptions to the rule but to keep your back foot at that angle IMO and in the opinion of many great trainers (Not that I am one) say there is no advantage.

If Jack Johnson would be training today, I guarantee you, you would not see this style of fighting. When you stand with your "foot in a bucket" you CANNOT get full movement and turning of your hips, try it. Stand that way and keep your foot flat on the ground, it inhibits your knee from getting full motion.

The same way a basketball player turns on his pivot foot, it allows him free range of motion and more flexibility to use his knees to move up and down levels.

Just my opinion.

i just dont feel a diffrence i see what your saying but maybe im doing something diffrently.

i keep about about 20/80 weight distrubution with most my weight on my back leg and my body slightly retreated.

kinda like this though not as retreated with my body, unless i want to retreat that far which i can do and stay well balanced.



though not as good in that pic the back leg is slightly more square then a normal stance and the front leg is brought in slightly. heres a better one, actually no hotlinking with the previous fitz pic so i changed it and both show the foot placement decently.



i have no problem with your opinion i more so just wanted to point out that its also what was know as the old masters stance and give jacks views on it.

[Cuauhtémoc1520]

i just dont feel a diffrence i see what your saying but maybe im doing something diffrently.

i keep about about 20/80 weight distrubution with most my weight on my back leg and my body slightly retreated.

kinda like this though not as retreated with my body, unless i want to retreat that far which i can do and stay well balanced.



though not as good in that pic the back leg is slightly more square then a normal stance and the front leg is brought in slightly. heres a better one, actually no hotlinking with the previous fitz pic so i changed it and both show the foot placement decently.



i have no problem with your opinion i more so just wanted to point out that its also what was know as the old masters stance and give jacks views on it.

I get you man, and as a trainer myself I can tell you that there's more than one way to skin a cat. It's not about right or wrong, just different schools of thought.

I just firmly believe that power comes from your hips and lower body. As you know, when fighters "turn" their shots over, it comes from their feet, to their hips, to their shoulders which then distributes the power to their shots.

If your back foot is in that "L" shape or in a "bucket" then you cannot get full motion of your back knee. Try it and you will see what I'm talking about. If your back foot is in that L shape and planted flat on the ground, it prevents you from getting that full range of motion.

Again, just different school of thought. Nothing personal and I respect and have reverence for the old timers because they were real men who we don't make anymore.

[BG_Knocc_Out]

I normally point my front foot totally forward because you open up your hips more for a right hand. But I don't understand the reasoning with the back foot pointed at a 90 because it nullifies the aforementioned advantage. The only advantage I can see that you can use it for is dipping to your right easier, but even that doesn't work too well against a balanced fighter.

[Vitez]

Again look at the Lewis-Klitschko fight.....modern boxing yet they use this almost L shape.

Not a perfect L because you can't push with your front foot for left hook if it's pointing straight forward.

And back foot slightly less than 90 to be able to move faster forward etc.

I don't fight, I do spar and so far this is the one I like.