Gym/Weights ...

[EzzardFan]

Your experience sounds typical of many lifters I know, who lift heavy and box and become injured. I was the same way once. Now I do many sport specific lifts, focus on the posterior chain, and do lots of unusual lifts and even calisthenics to improve stabilizer muscles and body control. I also bench press 270 at a body weight of 160. And I can say that I have never been, faster, stronger, more flexible or healthier than I am now.

How old are you?

[tito_bandito]

I do weight lifting...I curl 10-15 pounds but I do 4 sets of 50 reps verry quickly with seconds to rest and then I push the weights up and do 4 sets of 30 reps....I do my 100 push ups and I bench press 80% of my body weight and do 4 sets of 20...and the rest of the workout is cardio

[luv4boxing84]

How old are you?

I'm 25. Been boxing since I was 14. Minus a few years in between do to injuries. The list of them is crazy(Torn spinal erectus muscle, torn ACL, torn left bicep tendon, many broken noses, broken hand and a rotator cuff injury I never had examined. Just stopped training until it felt better. Which took 6 months. lol). Lately though I have remained very healthy (With the exception of a seperated rib in sparring the other week, talk about painful). After every injury I study and come back experimenting with new conditioning techniques. It seems to me a lot of injuries come from lack of strength, or from to much strength with poor body control and flexibility. I have suffered from both of these in the past. Now I carefully train for strength, speed, body control and flexibility. My experience with injuries was a little unusual, but I had a very aggresive boxing style with a very thin frame (5'11", 135-160lbs through the years). Using only calisthenics my body is simply to weak to hold up under the strain, and using only lifting my muscles became stronger than my ability to withstand the forces I was generating. Putting both together in a well thought out way has helped tremendously.

[EzzardFan]

Well suggest you reserve judgement on the longterm effects of weight training until you are much nearer 40 (like me). My own weight training related injuries only started to develop once I got past 32, and only became critical one I hit 37.

If you can't get strong enough for boxing doing calisthenics then you aren't trying hard enough. Tell that to any boxer who operated prior to 1985 and he'll be KO'd laughing.

I've yet to meet someone who succeeded in building sufficient strength to perform the iron cross by training weights. In fact most people I know who shun calisthenics are unable to muster much in the way of a handstand pushup, despite being able to shoulder press 120lbs or more.

[luv4boxing84]

I have already had my share of lifting injuries. From accidents and wear and tear. My lifts are picked more carefully now, with a lot of thought about functionality and my joints. The one lift I still do that might wear my joints down is bench. I only keep that around because of a friendly compition with my brother.
My original problem with calisthenics was i couldn't even do my body weight I was seriously that weak). So I had to do weights. Then calisthenics only take you so far in some places. I admit that they can be intense and build strength, but they are not the only effective tool. Take a look at Bernard hopkins, skinny guy but he has been weight training since his 20's. Looks fine to me. He also uses both methods. Today is my leg day and I will be doing one leg bodyweight squats side by side with back squats with 200 pounds. One leg body weight squats are great for balance and quad strength, but I could never get as strong with my body weight as I could with bodyweight plus 200 pounds. So I add the two together and get the best of both worlds.
There are plenty of gym **** in there 40's who still lift regularly with no problems. The ones I see injured are the guys going balls to the wall every workout. My opinion is that you probably just didn't lift right. And don't forget that calisthenics is weight training too. Just body weight as opposed to iron. Both can be done wrong or right. With weights its just easier to over do it.

[EzzardFan]

I have already had my share of lifting injuries. From accidents and wear and tear. My lifts are picked more carefully now, with a lot of thought about functionality and my joints. The one lift I still do that might wear my joints down is bench. I only keep that around because of a friendly compition with my brother.
My original problem with calisthenics was i couldn't even do my body weight I was seriously that weak). So I had to do weights. Then calisthenics only take you so far in some places. I admit that they can be intense and build strength, but they are not the only effective tool. Take a look at Bernard hopkins, skinny guy but he has been weight training since his 20's. Looks fine to me. He also uses both methods. Today is my leg day and I will be doing one leg bodyweight squats side by side with back squats with 200 pounds. One leg body weight squats are great for balance and quad strength, but I could never get as strong with my body weight as I could with bodyweight plus 200 pounds. So I add the two together and get the best of both worlds.

There are plenty of gym **** in there 40's who still lift regularly with no problems. The ones I see injured are the guys going balls to the wall every workout. My opinion is that you probably just didn't lift right. And don't forget that calisthenics is weight training too. Just body weight as opposed to iron. Both can be done wrong or right. With weights its just easier to over do it.

With reference to your squats... why do you feel there is an advantage to becoming stronger? Boxing is ALL about explosive power. It's not a body building or weight lifting contest. Doing a set of 100 hindu pushups 3x a week is exactly what is needed to develop the explosive leg power used in boxing. Adding unnecessary mass to your legs will make you less nimble and just means more work for your heart to pump blood round all that extra muscle. It's not like you are fighting with a 200lbs backpack on LOL!

Another example of this, which sports scientists (tm) never cite is that of the horse. You get many different types of horse, derby horse (flat racing), show jumping horse, cart horse, steeplejack horse, and plough horse, to name but a few. Making a race horse pull a plough might make it "stronger" but it won't make it faster. In fact it might even kill it. This line of thinking is where the term "horses for courses" originates from.

But if you really want to become stronger then you should look at isometrics. It is a generally accepted scientific fact that isometrics do far more to increase strength than lifting weights. I repeat - FAR MORE. All those old time circus strongmen who could snap chains with their bare hands trained using isometrics. Body builders and sports scientists (tm) conveniently overlook this fact.

[Manuel6]

I think we are all over the place here.

First, you must define very narrowly the training effect you are seeking. If you want endurance, build an aerobic base and spar. If you want strength, then strength train. Boxers shouldn't do any type of conditioning because they think other people are doing it or because somebody thinks this is the best protocol.

So you have to ask yourself, why I am doing this? Why do I run, lift weights, stretch, etc. Where am I weak, what needs improvement, etc. Having said that, I have never met anybody too strong. There really is no such thing. In almost all sporting endeavors strength is a plus (strength, not muscular bulk). The question thus becomes, how much more strength do I need.

I have yet to come across someone who is not a better athlete because of weight training. I have heard all the excuses- I'll get bulked up (as if it were that easy), makes me slow, etc., and none of it has merit. If that were the case track and field athletes, running backs, and olympic weightlifters would be so inflexible that they could barely walk. Yet, most of them exhibit a high degree of flexibility to go with their enourmous amount of power. Weight train, get strong, and join the rest of the athletic community that has known for years that judicious, measured weight training can only be a positive.

[luv4boxing84]

With reference to your squats... why do you feel there is an advantage to becoming stronger? Boxing is ALL about explosive power. It's not a body building or weight lifting contest. Doing a set of 100 hindu pushups 3x a week is exactly what is needed to develop the explosive leg power used in boxing. Adding unnecessary mass to your legs will make you less nimble and just means more work for your heart to pump blood round all that extra muscle. It's not like you are fighting with a 200lbs backpack on LOL!

Another example of this, which sports scientists (tm) never cite is that of the horse. You get many different types of horse, derby horse (flat racing), show jumping horse, cart horse, steeplejack horse, and plough horse, to name but a few. Making a race horse pull a plough might make it "stronger" but it won't make it faster. In fact it might even kill it. This line of thinking is where the term "horses for courses" originates from.

But if you really want to become stronger then you should look at isometrics. It is a generally accepted scientific fact that isometrics do far more to increase strength than lifting weights. I repeat - FAR MORE. All those old time circus strongmen who could snap chains with their bare hands trained using isometrics. Body builders and sports scientists (tm) conveniently overlook this fact.

I agree that I will never have to fight with any kind of weight on me. But power requires strength and speed. I do my squats to build max strength, jumping squats to build acceleration and speed, plyometric box jumps to build starting strength, and calisthenic leg workouts to build balance and stability. The stronger I become, the more force I can hit with, provided of course that I train to hit. I also never get bigger (I have tried but it really doesn't work), anymore though I don't even try. I only do one set of each workout to leave more energy for my boxing workout. My strength keeps creeping up, but my size remains the same. More strength at the same weight means I can manipulate my body weight better.

Plus its not like all calisthenics are safe. I have messed my shoulders up doing wall press. I mean what would the differance be between wall pressing my 160 pounds of body weight or military pressing the same, or even a safer lower weight? There are many different types of strength, and while the boxer mainly uses speed-strength, he still benefits from all of them. But most of my training centers around interval, high intensity endurance and speed-strength. My power lifting only makes up one small component.

As for isometrics, I do use them to. In fact I start and end every leg workout with a pair of 2 minute isometric lunges. To many isometrics can slow you down though. The body can become adapted to not moving while applying strength. But in moderation it is very usefull, just like strength training.