Wow, I didnt realize there so many benifets to lifting weights........

[chessplayer163]

I said RUSSIAN wrestlers. You proved my point. USA wrestling has it wrong.

Yeah, all the USA wrestlers USE weights, especially high school and college. In fact they spend up to 2 hours a day. Because they have so much influence from BALL SPORTS athletes and other sources that are wrong.

The US team almost always uses power or strength and weight cutting to win. Instead of mastering technique. Saitiev, the best wrestler from RUSSIA, is very skinny.

Almost all US wrestlers are strength wrestlers, power wrestlers, and you know what? They have short short careers because they starve themselves, and are just POWER wrestlers that don't learn the sweet science.

In the Greco Roman vid that is Jim Gruenwald and he did a lot of dips, and pull ups on his own and went to say that it way better than weights just last year.

USA wrestlers are like SLUGGERS that never learn to BOX, they all rely on power.

[Phenomkidd]

I beg to differ with the wrestlers I've seen, and my school has state competitors, D1 Wrestlers, etc. They have what seems to be good technique, not that I can compare to Russia however. Weightlifting does not break you down, weightlifting when done right supplements what you currently have. I think I'm done explaining this...

[TheNegation]

I said RUSSIAN wrestlers. You proved my point. USA wrestling has it wrong.

Yeah, all the USA wrestlers USE weights, especially high school and college. In fact they spend up to 2 hours a day. Because they have so much influence from BALL SPORTS athletes and other sources that are wrong.

The US team almost always uses power or strength and weight cutting to win. Instead of mastering technique. Saitiev, the best wrestler from RUSSIA, is very skinny.

Almost all US wrestlers are strength wrestlers, power wrestlers, and you know what? They have short short careers because they starve themselves, and are just POWER wrestlers that don't learn the sweet science.

In the Greco Roman vid that is Jim Gruenwald and he did a lot of dips, and pull ups on his own and went to say that it way better than weights just last year.

USA wrestlers are like SLUGGERS that never learn to BOX, they all rely on power.

You haven't proven your point. You've pointed out one nation of wrestlers and based your whole argument around that, which is foolish.

And you still haven't been able to come forth with proof that calisthenics are better, nor have you come forth with any proof that says weightlifting is bad other than your opinion and the opinion of a few other people.

[Spartacus Sully]

If you want to be a really good boxer do only boxing training and calisthenics

if you want to be a really good boxer fast do about 80% boxing training and calisthenics with about 20% weightlifting

if you want to be an acceptable boxer or just want to be able to keep up with the rest of the people in your gym that are never going to be famous do about 40-70% of your training on weights.

if you never plan on boxing on any kind of level showing any kind of skill 100% of your training should be weights.

[chessplayer163]

Just for Starters

Lifting weights and INJURIES

http://www.straighttothebar.com/2006..._injuries.html

http://www.exercisegoals.com/weight-...-injuries.html

http://www.powerliftingwatch.com/node/3257 2.6 injuries per 1000 hrs of lifting

Destroys your joints http://www.swis.ca/index.php?option=...1&limitstart=0

Wrecks your shoulder http://www.protraineronline.com/past...3/shoulder.cfm

Lifting cause pain and injuries in lower back, kness, shoulders elbows.
http://www.eric.ed.gov/ERICWebPortal...accno=EJ585731

Study in the number of lifting injuries in adolescents http://pediatrics.aappublications.or...tract/72/5/636

How the big lifts deadlift, squat, bench, cause injuries http://www.powerhousegym.co.nz/artic...l_injuries.pdf

[chessplayer163]

lifting injuries

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cSJCDcAKShA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EK4L8Nk2ZpA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3poAx...eature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otqbG...eature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SYklb...eature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SYklb...eature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uI0Zl-tMRf4

[TheNegation]

...and you have proven my point. As I mentioned before the injuries that come from lifting come from too much weight and poor form.

Not to mention you chose powerlifting to cite most of the injuries caused by weightlifting, which conflicts with what I had already mentioned about form and weight.

You see the more weight you lift the more problems are going to show in your form. Form is extremely important and if your form sucks and you try to lift too much weight, the chances of injury and accidents are there.

But I've seen people blow out their knees not lifting any weight at all. So really, your argument is invalid.

You picked the studies where either

A) Subjects Injured were using too much weight
B) Subjects Injured were using poor form
C) Subjects Injured were using both A & B
D) Subjects involved in Powerlifting

Powerlifting has been a sport plagued by injuries for a long time because it's all about weight. Nowadays people are smarter about their training and from training with Powerlifters and going to IPA meets, injuries are much less commonplace.

You can't go and say well, look at this ****** using ****ty form, too much weight and got injured. That's not the fault of the exercise and that's not the fault of weightlifting. That's the fault of the person for trying to do something without knowing how to do it in the first place

[DiLLiNGER]

i need a weight training program..just to bulk up..i wanna train 3-4 days a week..which i do now but don't have really a plan..i just do w/e i come up with.

[EzzardFan]

Lifting weights and INJURIES

Of the links you posted I think these are the most pertinent:

The link below comes from a weightlifting site, so of course it's heavily skewed towards lifting. Sources with a pro weight training standpoint always blame poor form or incorrect technique on these injuries. I don't dispute that poor form an incorrect technique cause the majority of injuries. However I would argue that the wear an tear of hoisting weights for 18 years was the main cause of my own injuries, and I'm not alone in experiencing this problem. It also seems to me that there are hundreds of potential 'mistakes' to be made when lifting. More and more are being cited each year. Much of the advice is conflicting. Some of the stuff I was taught by personal trainers 18 years ago is now considered downright dangerous, holding your breath during the lift for instance??? Mark my words in 20 years time the waters will be even muddier. One part that particularly made me laugh in this link was "The 'no curl' biceps program"...

http://www.straighttothebar.com/2006...g_injuries.htm

This next link cites power lifters. But we must take into account that although power lifters are the most affected, that these same injuries can be caused by less extreme lifting, otherwise surely people like me wouldn't be affected after only benching 220lbs! I'd also like to point out that my injuries were sustained in spite of longterm execution of the injury prevention techniques. The injuries most likely occurred due to an accumulation of wear and tear over many years.

http://www.protraineronline.com/past...3/shoulder.cfm

This final link also references powerlifters but the advice in it is very good for any lifter. Unfortunately there is a lot of advice to take on board and many classic exercises need to be dispensed with.

http://www.powerhousegym.co.nz/artic...l_injuries.pdf

Now for the flip side of the coin, there are also some dangers inherent in calisthenics. For example if someone only performed one from of pushup then this would undoubtedly result in imbalance injuries and wear and tear type damage. The difference with calisthenics is:

1) There are less rules for avoiding injury and they are much simpler and better understood.

2) Calisthenics exercises are all essentially compound. They do not isolate muscles, overwork the smaller muscles, or create impingements. They all strongly target the core, and work large sections of the body in perfect synchronisation.

3) When performed explosively calisthenics hit your burst cardio (the type we need for boxing) as hard as they hit the muscles. When performing pushups I'm never sure whether I'm going to run out of strength first or gas first. This also reinforces the link-up between the skeletal muscles and the cardiovascular system. You're training your muscles, heart and lungs to all work in conjunction with each other. That's exactly what we need when fighting, and why calisthenics is so highly regarded by boxing trainers.

4) Here's a simple challenge. You take two individuals of roughly the same weight and physical condition. One trains only with weights, the other trains only calisthenics. Have them perform each others routines for 1 week and compare the results. I can almost guarantee that the calisthenic proponents performance on the weights will be close to that of the lifter, but the lifter will perform very poorly at the callisthenics. I believe this because I've taken up this challenge on a couple occasions over the past 12 months. There's no need to argue about what the outcome might be. The proof is entirely demonstrable by performing the challenge yourself. I don't expect anyone to believe me or take my word for it. I don't recommend taking anyone's word on this one, or buying into any of the arguments on this thread. Just take this challenge and base your knowledge on the outcome.

5) There is an even easier way... I am 39 years old, I'm 6' tall and weigh 175. Here are a few of the things that I can do:

80 pushups on most of the basic forms.

30 handstand pushups (supported by another person as I have a serious neck injury).

30 full range parallel dips.

60 bench dips.

12 wide grip over arm pull ups

The iron cross.

What's more I can do those thing one after the other with no drop in performance. If you are working a weights only routine, then test this out on yourself. In my experience most lifters, even 20 years younger than me, can't do those things.

If you do take up this challenge, and you fail, then I'd strongly recommend taking 3 months out your weight training routine and focusing on calisthenics instead. Chance are you'll never go back to weights. Weights are a triumph of marketing over substance.

A common complaint is that calisthenics lacks the social aspect of weights. This is easy to solve. Do the exercise with a trainings partner. It's just like being at the gym.

If anyone wants a copy of my calisthenics routine then just PM me.

EDIT: Also to the best of my knowledge the vast majority of gymnasts do not train with weights. Try telling me they aren't strong. In fact just try performing the iron cross!

[Trrmo]

Of the links you posted I think these are the most pertinent:

The link below comes from a weightlifting site, so of course it's heavily skewed towards lifting. Sources with a pro weight training standpoint always blame poor form or incorrect technique on these injuries. I don't dispute that poor form an incorrect technique cause the majority of injuries. However I would argue that the wear an tear of hoisting weights for 18 years was the main cause of my own injuries, and I'm not alone in experiencing this problem. It also seems to me that there are hundreds of potential 'mistakes' to be made when lifting. More and more are being cited each year. Much of the advice is conflicting. Some of the stuff I was taught by personal trainers 18 years ago is now considered downright dangerous, holding your breath during the lift for instance??? Mark my words in 20 years time the waters will be even muddier. One part that particularly made me laugh in this link was "The 'no curl' biceps program"...

http://www.straighttothebar.com/2006...g_injuries.htm

This next link cites power lifters. But we must take into account that although power lifters are the most affected, that these same injuries can be caused by less extreme lifting, otherwise surely people like me wouldn't be affected after only benching 220lbs! I'd also like to point out that my injuries were sustained in spite of longterm execution of the injury prevention techniques. The injuries most likely occurred due to an accumulation of wear and tear over many years.

http://www.protraineronline.com/past...3/shoulder.cfm

This final link also references powerlifters but the advice in it is very good for any lifter. Unfortunately there is a lot of advice to take on board and many classic exercises need to be dispensed with.

http://www.powerhousegym.co.nz/artic...l_injuries.pdf

Now for the flip side of the coin, there are also some dangers inherent in calisthenics. For example if someone only performed one from of pushup then this would undoubtedly result in imbalance injuries and wear and tear type damage. The difference with calisthenics is:

1) There are less rules for avoiding injury and they are much simpler and better understood.

2) Calisthenics exercises are all essentially compound. They do not isolate muscles, overwork the smaller muscles, or create impingements. They all strongly target the core, and work large sections of the body in perfect synchronisation.

3) When performed explosively calisthenics hit your burst cardio (the type we need for boxing) as hard as they hit the muscles. When performing pushups I'm never sure whether I'm going to run out of strength first or gas first. This also reinforces the link-up between the skeletal muscles and the cardiovascular system. You're training your muscles, heart and lungs to all work in conjunction with each other. That's exactly what we need when fighting, and why calisthenics is so highly regarded by boxing trainers.

4) Here's a simple challenge. You take two individuals of roughly the same weight and physical condition. One trains only with weights, the other trains only calisthenics. Have them perform each others routines for 1 week and compare the results. I can almost guarantee that the calisthenic proponents performance on the weights will be close to that of the lifter, but the lifter will perform very poorly at the callisthenics. I believe this because I've taken up this challenge on a couple occasions over the past 12 months. There's no need to argue about what the outcome might be. The proof is entirely demonstrable by performing the challenge yourself. I don't expect anyone to believe me or take my word for it. I don't recommend taking anyone's word on this one, or buying into any of the arguments on this thread. Just take this challenge and base your knowledge on the outcome.

5) There is an even easier way... I am 39 years old, I'm 6' tall and weigh 175. Here are a few of the things that I can do:

80 pushups on most of the basic forms.

30 handstand pushups (supported by another person as I have a serious neck injury).

30 full range parallel dips.

60 bench dips.

12 wide grip over arm pull ups

The iron cross.

What's more I can do those thing one after the other with no drop in performance. If you are working a weights only routine, then test this out on yourself. In my experience most lifters, even 20 years younger than me, can't do those things.

If you do take up this challenge, and you fail, then I'd strongly recommend taking 3 months out your weight training routine and focusing on calisthenics instead. Chance are you'll never go back to weights. Weights are a triumph of marketing over substance.

A common complaint is that calisthenics lacks the social aspect of weights. This is easy to solve. Do the exercise with a trainings partner. It's just like being at the gym.

If anyone wants a copy of my calisthenics routine then just PM me.

EDIT: Also to the best of my knowledge the vast majority of gymnasts do not train with weights. Try telling me they aren't strong. In fact just try performing the iron cross!

Thats great you can do those exercises, congratulations, but if you are training for it you adapt, I dont know if powerlifters could do that (without training for it) or not but it is irrevelant, to boxing anyway.

Skill training is the most important but weights can be a useful tool in a some boxers arsenal, calisthenics as well. The thing most people are missing here is that there are many ways to skin a cat. Too many generalizations as well, surely individual differences, strengths and weaknesses play a part, genetics of course as well.