So, how do you beat up these Kung Fu guys?

[j]

I believe you.
I just think the video is dumb, but I guess in martial arts there is a tradition of putting on demonstrations where they aren't really fighting, and that is hard for an old boxing nerd to understand.

yes! u are right!

you know why? because many years ago, people solely relied on martial arts for money - and they didn't have yellowpages back then. word of mouth, or demonstrations of power for example were used a lot for a reason - to hide their actual practice.

see, if you and one other guy were the only 2 teachers in town, you guys would likely end up fighting. and the loser would have to leave town for good or not teach there anymore. the winner would get the loser's students and also new students by word of mouth.

now, if your rival knew what you did, he could prepare for u much easier. that is one thing that led to secrecy. and secrecy has also led to the decline in people with real abilities.

read my blog if u want to know more bro. i don't mind.

[mr tricky]

/




im sorry but that **** is pathetic in a real fight,
rewatch it again and imagine one of the little guys giving his a straight right and left hook, or some kind of punch to the jaw instead of doing usless holds and stuff,

just rewatch it and look , you can see it looks coreographed and planned on is just ****** in a rela fight you would just hit him and feint and easily hit the old guy

[j]

im sorry but that **** is pathetic in a real fight,
rewatch it again and imagine one of the little guys giving his a straight right and left hook, or some kind of punch to the jaw instead of doing usless holds and stuff,

just rewatch it and look , you can see it looks coreographed and planned on is just ****** in a rela fight you would just hit him and feint and easily hit the old guy

do you think you could beat him up?

[j]

dude, i am more than sure he has been in more fights than you and any five people you know combined. let's make that ten.



having personally met the guy, anything he wants to work will work. he could handle me when we were playing around fairly easily. he folded my ass up with one of those little palm strikes.

now, you think it is choreographed? lol. unbelieveable some of you people. i guess you guys have never met someone who could humble you in 2 seconds. your loss. you might want to take the time to read about him before you think how easy it would be to beat him up.

to be honest, if i would have my hands full with him, and i have been studying fighting for nearly 20 years, you would be as much threat to him as a baby is to you or me.

people don't travel across the world to train with him because he can't fight.

when you win a full contact tournament on a national level more than once, then i will definitely consider that you may know what u are talking about.

[j]

this was once a fun little convo, but then everyone here started becoming experts on things they have not ever done. i am done with this. i am not sure what u would expect to see from a 50+ year olf guy having fun with a few people - and mainly pointing out the strategy of continuous movement, for that is what u should see it for. if you ever meet him, then i am sure u will be happy to tell me how wrong you are about his technique.

edit: one last thing - he makes you second guess yourself. especially as a student because you know what he can do. sure, they don't look menacing. but this guy actually is. and has done probably more dirt than u can dream of.

[JayCoe]

Like people say, when a boxer faces somebody who does a very different martial art, mostly oriental arts, it really depends on the day and how good either one is.

However, when fighting somebody who, for example, does karate you would stay in close use hooks, uppercuts, you'd duck and dive and utilise both sides of the body. Martial art punches don't tend to be that powerful, it's the kicks i'd be worried about which is why i'd be in close. Once i'm stuck on them like a fly i've completely removed their legs from the fight making it simply an in-fighter vs. in-fighter boxing match, except they don't know boxing . Other arts like Muay Thai however use elbows aswell so you'd have to acknowledge this and threat these like a hook, raisng your bicept and forearm to cover the entire side of your face. But like i've mentioned before, I think the most important factor would be to remove their legs from the fight which does force you into fight on the inside. Like mentioned earlier in the thread, it'd be like being prepared for a knife fight and the guy pulling out a baseball bat if you let them use their legs because we have no idea how to defend against kicks. Chances are i'd be moving in low and then high, slipping and ducking and would end up with an easy kick to the face if I didn't go in close simply because that's my reaction. Once you're on the inside you also have to remember the boxing face guard, I believe, is stronger than many martial arts guards so now in that equation you're the guy with the bat not the knife, not them.

That guy in the red t-shirt has made a complete joke of himself. He can't fight, it's just the guy in black can't fight more. Look at the guy in blacks punches at ~ 1:15, they're nothing and yet the guy in red doesn't react well at all to an easy punch, they get tangled in a ***** slap fight and the guy in red lands the lucky shot. Had nothing to do with any martial arts, he missed more shots than he landed, basically he just swang his arms and he landed a swing best first.

[j]

Like people say, when a boxer faces somebody who does a very different martial art, mostly oriental arts, it really depends on the day and how good either one is.

However, when fighting somebody who, for example, does karate you would stay in close use hooks, uppercuts, you'd duck and dive and utilise both sides of the body. Martial art punches don't tend to be that powerful, it's the kicks i'd be worried about which is why i'd be in close. Once i'm stuck on them like a fly i've completely removed their legs from the fight making it simply an in-fighter vs. in-fighter boxing match, except they don't know boxing . Other arts like Muay Thai however use elbows aswell so you'd have to acknowledge this and threat these like a hook, raisng your bicept and forearm to cover the entire side of your face. But like i've mentioned before, I think the most important factor would be to remove their legs from the fight which does force you into fight on the inside. Like mentioned earlier in the thread, it'd be like being prepared for a knife fight and the guy pulling out a baseball bat if you let them use their legs because we have no idea how to defend against kicks. Chances are i'd be moving in low and then high, slipping and ducking and would end up with an easy kick to the face if I didn't go in close simply because that's my reaction. Once you're on the inside you also have to remember the boxing face guard, I believe, is stronger than many martial arts guards so now in that equation you're the guy with the bat not the knife, not them.

That guy in the red t-shirt has made a complete joke of himself. He can't fight, it's just the guy in black can't fight more. Look at the guy in blacks punches at ~ 1:15, they're nothing and yet the guy in red doesn't react well at all to an easy punch, they get tangled in a ***** slap fight and the guy in red lands the lucky shot. Had nothing to do with any martial arts, he missed more shots than he landed, basically he just swang his arms and he landed a swing best first.

haha, yeah that guy in red owned himself. i cannot even try to understand what was going through his head. he must have thought he was in a movie or something. it reminds me of neo from the matrix.

and dude, where the hell did u get that martial arts don't have strong punches. my **** has a huge focus on power/concussive punching. believe me i hit hard enough. and i always love hitting harder. you must have had bad experiences.

yeah, that kid in red, like i said, just swung at the right time and happened to connect. i wonder if he thinks he is a badass now. also reminds me of karate kid for some reason.

[fraidycat]

If I can, for a moment, go back to the original question:

What both of the guys who got owned in those videos did, that lost them the fight, was HESITATE. I'm not saying that they could have won against their opponents, but they both made the same mistake.

I've said this before and I stand by it: what makes boxing effective "on the street" is not punching ability. Boxing as a martial art does not win fights. What makes a boxer dangerous is what he's been through in his training. Boxing is one of the only martial arts that is practiced full-contact, with limited padding. A skilled boxer -- someone with, say, 5 years of hard training and a dozen matches under his belt -- has probably been punched in the face full-force a hundred times; so many times that it doesn't bother him any more than the shock of cold water bothers a competitive swimmer. He has been knocked to the ground. He's had the wind knocked out of him. He has conditioned himself to fight on with no wind, or with a broken nose, or even choking on his own blood. He knows that taking a heavy punch or kick is not going to kill him; he won't panic when he gets hit, or freak out at the taste of his own blood. And because of his conditioning and his experience in the ring, he's used to putting his body through a degree of pain that most people do not, and because of this, HE DOES NOT HESITATE. You punch a skilled boxer in the face, and he won't blink. Even if you can hit him, he just won't care.

Watch this guy:



Note how the guys he takes out spend most of their time TRYING NOT TO GET HIT -- covering up, back-stepping. Him? He just wades in, taking shots he's obviously practiced ten thousand times. Even if one of those guys had clocked him I doubt it would've even slowed him down.

There used to be a great news video of a Turkish (IIRC) security guard who has had boxing training, taking out eight or nine guys in the space of like fifteen seconds (EDIT: Mostly with jabs!) Because they hesitated and flinched, and he didn't.

That's what boxing gives you, that most martial arts don't. My nephew trains at a "martial arts" gym that DOES NOT HAVE CONTACT. At all. He can break a board held overhead with a jump kick, but he has never had the wind knocked out of him. He's never been punched. He's 15.

Anyone remember the first big hit you took? The first one that laid you out. The first one when you realized that this **** is serious; when you were lying on the canvas and started to shake uncontrollably. That punch. Personally, I threw up. Then I went into shock, and I cried for about ten minutes. That's what happens to most people the first time they get hit by someone who knows how to hit, the way a skilled boxer knows how to hit. Shock. Panic. Shutdown. That immediate sense that you are in over your head. Your brain telling you that you cannot deal with another punch like that; that you are in imminent mortal danger.

It doesn't happen to me anymore. I finished a match with a punctured eardrum last year. The guy busted my eardrum and I knocked him across the ring with an overhand right two seconds later. That's what boxing gives you, that most other forms don't. If you're a boxer, that's what you have, to work with. That's ALL you have. Just hope it's enough.

[fraidycat]

I should add, too, that what I described above: panic, shock, shutdown -- is what's happening to Charlie "White Hope" Zelenoff in the clip in my sig. About ten seconds before this GIF he took a looping left hook to the face and he just shut down. He spent the rest of the fight -- all twenty seconds of it -- trying to not get hit again.

His mistake?

He had never sparred full-contact.

Read that again.

He had never sparred full-contact.

Charlie had "trained" on pads and a heavybag at the Hollywood Boxing Gym, and when I dropped in to spar him, I was told that they don't allow contact sparring. As a result, the first time he took a full-force hit was in a potentially life-threatening situation.

He's lucky to have escaped a pro fight alive.

[JayCoe]

I think you're mostly right but in that video I don't think you can put how good he is down to the fact he's not spending time trying not to get hit, the reason he was so effective was because he was fighting people who suspecting, he was fast as **** and kept everything brilliant. If they'd have starting swinging at him I doubt he would have ignored it, he would have ducked and dived caught them on counters and then taken back the offensive.

You know I never knew until recently how few people actually fight, it kind of shocked and worried me. I've got friends, 18-19, who have never punched somebody, never been hit or if they have hit somebody it wasn't a real punch, it was a random swing. Hell, I remember as a kid a game me and my brothers use to love was my oldest would stand in a wide doorway holding two padded pillows, myself and my other brother had to run across the room through the doorway and whilst the oldest would try hit us down...I was about 5, it was great fun. Hell, any English people on here remember the game "British Bulldog" or "Run Across"...1 person had to go into the middle, everybody else stood on one end of the playground and the person in the middle chose 1 person and they'd have to run across to the other side whilst the other guy tried to beat **** out of him until he gave in. If he gave in he joined the guy in the middle and they now worked as a team. If he didn't everybody ran across at the same time and the guy in the middle had to try catch someone else. By the end it was 1 vs. everyone...It was brutal, you were dragging people to the floor, punching and kicking on a tarmac playground and this was when we were like 5-11! AWESOME GAME!.

You're right about the hesitation though. Boxing makes you so much more ******* with your fists which is a good thing and a bad thing. I think if somebody tried to swing a punch at me i'd slip it and come back with like 3 without thought. Few days ago a mate whipped me with a belt he just bought, I punched him in the arm (not at full strength) and afterwards I quickly realised that instead of just punching him in the arm like anybody would I was stood there in full boxing stance, guard up, elbows in, feet diagnol ready to pivot the backhand...It's crazy