Are weights good for building explosiveness?

[Unanimous]

Karma for that bro!

[PunchDrunk]

your such a ****wit shut up

And the loser is.... you!

[Salty]

I suggest anyone read this book


http://www.rosstraining.com/infiniteintensity.html

He is an absolute machine, try his workouts and you will love them, providing a mixture of weights and body weight. But basically make your ripped/stronger than ever before. But PunchDrunk is right you's need to learn how muscles work and diets etc. before posting bull**** which makes no sense if you have any knowledge of the sugbject.

[Rob Pilger]

When people in boxing think strength ( weight training) they automatically think of a body builder or some jacked tight dude... The thing with strength training in boxing is... it is meant to supplement what you don't get from skill training, and give you what you NEED to be a better fighter. What ends fights fast?..... Explosive power!... How do you get explosive?... By getting strong then fast!... Bompa's book is good and like he says in it.. What is the prerequisite for power.. Maximal strength and speed.. That's the formula... If you truly want to be explosive follow the formula that has been proven to work by research AND real world experience.

Strength training when done right does not compete with boxing skill training time. It can't if it is to be done right, you get great results with 3-4 big **** exercise per workout 2-3 per weak depending on needs for an hour or less per session. This does not take away from your skill training and improves it. My point is that some people think you have to lift long and hard and you don't and mustn't for great results.

Whether you want to load body weight movements to get strong, or lift weights properly, ALL the experts who have the real experience agree, It all starts with getting strong. Speed and explosive power are born from strength.

Roy Jones Jr. worked with Strength/conditioning coach Mackie Shilstone for his fight with Ruiz for the Heavyweight Championship... He lifted weights and had to for the right move up in weight... Mackie has also been working with Bernard Hopkins for his fight with Calzaghe... Bernard is as old school as you can get in a current fighter and he has an open mind enough to strength train, He knows the benefit of it as Mackie worked with him and had him lifting for his dominant win over Tarver.

The results justify the training means and there is NO arguing that.

Rob Pilger
www.boxingperformance.com

[JayCoe]

Just to stop this bull**** child-like argument i'm going to tell you that you're both right. Boxers were discouraged from lifting weights. Bodyweight exercises, circuit training, cardio' and bag work was all that was seen as nessecary.

Body weight exercise is a form of resistance training, yes, however, it does not recreate weight lifting because lifting weights can, and most often does, target much more specific muscle groups or isolates specific muscles. It also provides the chance for greater resistance than a body weight can provide.

Boxers nowadays are encouraged to do weights exercise, in a proper routine, 2 times a week according to a leading British coach, Ian Oliver.

I personally believe weight training is a good idea though, body weight exercises are good for endurance and fitness. Problem is, once you can do 50 press ups, doing 100 wont increase your power, more your endurance.

As for "weight lifting does not make you bigger, food consumption does", that's half true, half bollocks. In regards to increased muscle mass, weight lifting is nessecary in order to significantly increase muscle mass, it will slightly increase you in size so long as you have suffcient resources for the muscles to 're-mould'. If you don't increase calories you most likely won't have sufficient resources for the muscles to maximise their growth and therefore the effects will be hindered. However, a large food comsumption will not make dramatically increase your muscle mass, mostly increasing fat. So, resistance exercise is nessecary to increase size.

In regards to the first post, lifting the weights up quickly does not help. It in fact hinders you. Weight lifting should also be slow in order to maximise it's effects.

[PunchDrunk]

Just to stop this bull**** child-like argument i'm going to tell you that you're both right. Boxers were discouraged from lifting weights. Bodyweight exercises, circuit training, cardio' and bag work was all that was seen as nessecary.

Body weight exercise is a form of resistance training, yes, however, it does not recreate weight lifting because lifting weights can, and most often does, target much more specific muscle groups or isolates specific muscles. It also provides the chance for greater resistance than a body weight can provide.

Boxers nowadays are encouraged to do weights exercise, in a proper routine, 2 times a week according to a leading British coach, Ian Oliver.

I personally believe weight training is a good idea though, body weight exercises are good for endurance and fitness. Problem is, once you can do 50 press ups, doing 100 wont increase your power, more your endurance.

In regards to the first post, lifting the weights up quickly does not help. It in fact hinders you. Weight lifting should also be slow in order to maximise it's effects.

Isolating specific muscles is not the way to go for athletes, except in case of a muscular imbalance or weak point. When you isolate a certain muscle, the increased strength doesn't have as much carry over to athletic movement, because in essence you're trying to teach the muscle to work alone. As Rob Pilger said "big **** exercises" are where it's at. Guess what those are? Big exercises, like deadlifts, cleans, squats and pressing/pulling movements., that require muscles to work together, just like bodyweight exercises do. To do any kind of athletic movement, you need your muscles to work together.

My point about bodyweight/weightlifting exercises was that there's no line or boundary that separates the two. If you do squats, do you not lift your own bodyweight along with the barbell on your back? In pullups, are you not able to add external weight to the exercise? Bodyweights, weights, who cares which is which? Just use the exercises that give you the results you need.

Also, if you think bodyweight exercises are limited because of resistance, then come tell us more about it when you can do 20 handstand pushups. After that, I'll tell you to do them without a wall to lean on. After that, do them on one hand. there's also one armed pushups if you get bored easily. The point here is that you can always make bodyweight exercises harder. The day bodyweight exercises are too easy for you, you could probably go to the olympics as a gymnast.

[JayCoe]

Isolating specific muscles is not the way to go for athletes, except in case of a muscular imbalance or weak point.

Couldn't agree more, I see these guys at the gym using dumbells and doing bicep curls, isolating the muscle, knowing that they're not doing it for any other reason than to look tough. I bet most of them are dumb ****s who haven't realised that if you slack off doing the biceps and work on your tricep, if it is not developed, your arm will look far more impressive.

you need your muscles to work together.

Yep, people lose sight of how important some muscles are. Even major ones, i've been told and told again by gym instructors and alike how they often see people working day in day out on their pecs...They look great, big best...Problem is they walk with a hunch because their back has been left. Bro' in the army was always taught, and has passed it onto me, whatever you do on the front do twice for the opposing muscles on the back. But back to your point more, you're right, people don't realise that muscles do not work in a singular motion. A muscle does not perform a task, muscles are a network.

Of course you can make body weight exercises harder, but it's more effcient to just weight train. Boxers nowadays do.

[PunchDrunk]

Couldn't agree more, I see these guys at the gym using dumbells and doing bicep curls, isolating the muscle, knowing that they're not doing it for any other reason than to look tough. I bet most of them are dumb ****s who haven't realised that if you slack off doing the biceps and work on your tricep, if it is not developed, your arm will look far more impressive.



Yep, people lose sight of how important some muscles are. Even major ones, i've been told and told again by gym instructors and alike how they often see people working day in day out on their pecs...They look great, big best...Problem is they walk with a hunch because their back has been left. Bro' in the army was always taught, and has passed it onto me, whatever you do on the front do twice for the opposing muscles on the back. But back to your point more, you're right, people don't realise that muscles do not work in a singular motion. A muscle does not perform a task, muscles are a network.

Of course you can make body weight exercises harder, but it's more effcient to just weight train. Boxers nowadays do.

My point about bodyweight/weights is simply that there's no need to split them up in two categories. There is no fundamental difference. I strength train, and I use strength training with my fighters. I use both deadlifts, cleans, squats and assorted weights exercises, but I also use dips, pullups, pistols and other bodyweight exercises. Sometimes the BW exercises are done with added weight, but I'm not really concerned with whether that makes them BW or weights exercises, just that they do the job I need.

[JayCoe]

Yeah you're right that bodyweight exercises are resistance training, as is weight lifting and therefore they cannot be split up as two seperate things, however, within resistance training there are sub-groups, for example, rowing is a resistance training but it cannot be said to be the same as weight lifting etc. Like I said you were both right, he is right in saying they didn't used to use weights, which they didn't, you are right that bodyweight exercises and weights are both to be within one group. You two just needed someone to say you're both right otherwise, because both of you were right, neither would back down and it was rapidly descending into just a slang match haha.

[Unanimous]

This Punch Drunk vs JayCoe information bout is awesome!