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  • Strength gains

    Sorry for this slight spam of the training board, but could you guys help me on a non-boxing training issue.

    I'm 175 6'1" and I'm looking to gain strength without putting on any bulky muscle. My cardio levels are pretty good as I play a fair bit of football and do some distance running on the side, but I've never been particularly strong, especially within my fairly slight tall frame.

    The guys at the gym have got me doing 2x15 reps on a variety of muscles, many of them back exercises - is this the right way to start? I've got reasonable muscle endurance from sports so I'm not sure I need to spend 2 months building it up more.

    Advice??

  • #2
    Well, if you're new to weights, then starting out like that is certainly reasonable. Ask them what they're planning ahead, whether they want you to just keep doing what you're doing, or if there's any sort of progress involved. If there is, cool! Keep doing as you're told. If they tell you "that's it," then that's wrong. You need to progress to heavier weight/fewer reps to keep developing strength (being a beginner, even 2x15 will make you stronger for a while). You should keep lifting in the 2x15 - 3x10 area for at least the first 6 months, if you're new to it. After that, you can gradually step it up. Be patient, you won't regret it.

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    • #3
      Also, you should go for compound exercises(where multiple joints are in the play) more so then isolation and try to work more with freeweights rather then machines and cables. All of my friends who are new to the game are always machine happy and machines are crap.

      But this is when you get a little more advanced and you should definately do the compound exercises under someone's supervision.

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      • #4
        power orientated lifts...... squats, deadlift, hang clean, power clean. 2 x 15reps for strength gains? that doesn't make any sense.

        check out www.danjohn.org he's got several books on there for free you can download. Dan John is the man, a god in strength training.

        also google "westside for skinny bastards"

        these should lean you in the right way. you shouldn't be doing mostly back either. it will add some strength but not power. you want to be focusing more on the posterior chain and legs. think big compound movements and supersets.

        I wouldn't worry too much about "getting big". its hard enough when you try, nevermind when not trying. that can be controled more with diet anyways.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by nedcmk1 View Post
          power orientated lifts...... squats, deadlift, hang clean, power clean. 2 x 15reps for strength gains? that doesn't make any sense.

          check out www.danjohn.org he's got several books on there for free you can download. Dan John is the man, a god in strength training.

          also google "westside for skinny bastards"

          these should lean you in the right way. you shouldn't be doing mostly back either. it will add some strength but not power. you want to be focusing more on the posterior chain and legs. think big compound movements and supersets.

          I wouldn't worry too much about "getting big". its hard enough when you try, nevermind when not trying. that can be controled more with diet anyways.
          Good points, and Dan John is indeed one of the men (there are many).

          You've misunderstood the "2x15 reps for strength gains" part though. When someone is new to lifting weights, you don't just put 'em on Westside for skinny bastards from day one. Ask Dan John, he'll tell you.

          2x15 or 3x10 is for a beginner to learn technique and have his body adapt to training with weights, without getting injured. This learning phase should be at least 6 months, maybe even more.

          The rep schemes vary from exercise to exercise of course. I wouldn't have people doing deadlifts for 15 reps, but bench press and smaller exercises? absolutely.

          The point is, strength gains are easy to get as an absolute beginner, and so are injuries. So start low weight/high rep, and then move on to more strenuous work when you're ready (which is often a little later than you'd think).

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          • #6
            If you read "From the Ground Up" Dan John recommends starting with deadlifts, cleans and front squats.

            Now he doesn't state in his post if he is brand new to lifting, or if thats just the program he is on. So if he is in reasonable shape he can go right into learning some new lifts, or if he knows them straight to westside. Westside isn't an advanced powerlifting program.

            I assumed he probly is not a newbie at lifting considering the details he used to describe his athletic ability, playing football ect....

            I do agree with you though on being ready long after you think you are. I had bought sessions with an olympic trainer, and didnt realize i would spend so much time with a broomstick....

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            • #7
              i was thinkin about venturing into lifting weights myself, since it seems to be more and more talked about amongst boxers that it actually is good and doesnt slow u down and all the myths blah blah...

              but i was told that doing like olympic lifts and big heavy compond lifts for little reps will add alot of bulky muscle, cuz the muscle will get bigger from getting so much stronger? is this not true? i have heard different advice from different people, lift light weights, lift heavy weights, and all other things. i was thinkin about liftin 1 day a week and i wasnt sure of a good program, like exercises and reps wise. mind u i am cutting weight for a fight also, so should i even lift?

              i like dan john i read some of his things but it seems like those programs are designed to bulk u up arent they??

              if anyone has programs they could recommend that they personally have tried i would like to see them so it would be appreciated.
              Last edited by SpeedKillz; 07-25-2007, 01:26 PM.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by SpeedKillz View Post
                i was thinkin about venturing into lifting weights myself, since it seems to be more and more talked about amongst boxers that it actually is good and doesnt slow u down and all the myths blah blah...

                but i was told that doing like olympic lifts and big heavy compond lifts for little reps will add alot of bulky muscle, cuz the muscle will get bigger from getting so much stronger? is this not true? i have heard different advice from different people, lift light weights, lift heavy weights, and all other things. i was thinkin about liftin 1 day a week and i wasnt sure of a good program, like exercises and reps wise. mind u i am cutting weight for a fight also, so should i even lift?

                i like dan john i read some of his things but it seems like those programs are designed to bulk u up arent they??

                if anyone has programs they could recommend that they personally have tried i would like to see them so it would be appreciated.
                I believe most of Dan John's stuff is for athletes. There IS a big difference between the needs of a discus thrower and a boxer of course, so always keep in mind who a program is written for. Ideally, everyone should have their own, individual program, which again, should be checked and revised constantly.

                Bulking up is harder to do than you would think. People have a hard time doing it, even When they're trying to, so if you eat right for NOT bulking, and do a lot of boxing training etc. on the side, your chances of bulking in any significant numbers is very slim, regardless of program. It's not the training that bulks you up, but the food you eat after training.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by PunchDrunk View Post
                  I believe most of Dan John's stuff is for athletes. There IS a big difference between the needs of a discus thrower and a boxer of course, so always keep in mind who a program is written for. Ideally, everyone should have their own, individual program, which again, should be checked and revised constantly.

                  Bulking up is harder to do than you would think. People have a hard time doing it, even When they're trying to, so if you eat right for NOT bulking, and do a lot of boxing training etc. on the side, your chances of bulking in any significant numbers is very slim, regardless of program. It's not the training that bulks you up, but the food you eat after training.
                  right right that makes sense but if ur liftin weights heavy ur muscle is still gonna get bigger so it can handle the load, isnt it? the whole weight lifting thing confuses the **** out of me to be honest, thats y i always stayed away from it. i have decent speed and power and havent lifted weights since i was like 17, so.....

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by nedcmk1 View Post
                    If you read "From the Ground Up" Dan John recommends starting with deadlifts, cleans and front squats.

                    Now he doesn't state in his post if he is brand new to lifting, or if thats just the program he is on. So if he is in reasonable shape he can go right into learning some new lifts, or if he knows them straight to westside. Westside isn't an advanced powerlifting program.

                    I assumed he probly is not a newbie at lifting considering the details he used to describe his athletic ability, playing football ect....

                    I do agree with you though on being ready long after you think you are. I had bought sessions with an olympic trainer, and didnt realize i would spend so much time with a broomstick....
                    The football he is talking about is soccer, I believe. Soccer players use less weight training than you'd think, unless he's at an absolute elite level (If he's palying for Man. U., I doubt he'd come here for answers).

                    He sounds to me like he's brand new to lifting, seeing as he's asking about "the right way to start." That's what he's asking, that's what I'm answering.

                    Again, starting out on westside for skinny bastards without a beginners phase is asking for injuries. Your body needs to learn to adapt to resistance training, and in the meantime, you can work on your technique.

                    I've trained with a bunch of Olympic weightlifters/coaches as well, and like you say, they have you doing technique for a pretty long time, which is the smart thing to do.

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