The Ten Greatest Heavyweight Championship Clashes

[Yogi]

Well, as I said, I tried to balance the criteria to the best of my ability. The list was comprised primarily on historic importance; but action and repercussions also played a role. Jeffries was long shot by the time Johnson fought him; and while it's true that it was important at the time, the action, or lack thereof within the bout, pushed it off the list.

Oh ****...I just saw that it was your article, K-Dogg.

Well done, my friend.

[K-DOGG]

Oh ****...I just saw that it was your article, K-Dogg.

Well done, my friend.

Much thanks, bro. I got to tell you, from the time I origianally started working on this piece until I turned it in yesterday, at least a month passed with me wrestling with notions exactly like you pointed out with Johnson-Jeffries. A labor of love, with emphasis on "labor"....I felt like I'd given birth when I finally got rid of it.

But, I'm glad I finally got it put together in a way that, at least, I was satisified with. lol!!

[wmute]

It's all about opinion, so I won't be offended. In a nutshell, here are the answers I can best give you.

You must look beyond retrospect to see the importance of Louis-Schmeling II. Max was no pushover in any sense of the word; it was Joe who raised his game to an all-time high.

Holyfield-Bowe is at number 7 because this list was not just about action and that match-up didn't measure up to the six above it.

The Thrilla in Manilla wasn't as significant at the first clash between the two, nor that significant historically, which was the primary premise of this list. If it were an action-list, it would be in the Top 3; but by the time Ali and Frazier met in 1975, both were past their best days......pride was almost all that remained. Frazier was pummelled in his next bout and retired and Ali never performed near that level again. The Thrilla was one last stand for both men and finished them both.

I perfectly understand the amount of propaganda behind either fighter in Louis-Schmeling 2, i doubt any other fight will ever come close to it.
Still if you wanted a competitive fight as you state in the guidelines, this one does not fit the bill.

As for Holyfield-Bowe: Louis-Conn was not that much of match up either since Billy Conn was a Light Heavy and Joe Louis already one of the most dominating HW champs. Same for Norton-Holmes: it wasnt as much of a match up compared to holy-bowe.

Thrilla... the social significance was close to zero (but you have norton-holmes and others sharing this feature), but the meaning of the fight is what you wrote in bold. (also dont forget who pummeled joe into retirement the following year).

anyway, this list is by nature subjective so arguing is pointless

[K-DOGG]

I perfectly understand the amount of propaganda behind either fighter in Louis-Schmeling 2, i doubt any other fight will ever come close to it.
Still if you wanted a competitive fight as you state in the guidelines, this one does not fit the bill.

As for Holyfield-Bowe: Louis-Conn was not that much of match up either since Billy Conn was a Light Heavy and Joe Louis already one of the most dominating HW champs. Same for Norton-Holmes: it wasnt as much of a match up compared to holy-bowe.

Thrilla... the social significance was close to zero (but you have norton-holmes and others sharing this feature), but the meaning of the fight is what you wrote in bold. (also dont forget who pummeled joe into retirement the following year).

anyway, this list is by nature subjective so arguing is pointless

In regards to the portion I emboldened, this is correct; but I always welcome different points of view.

Louis-Schmeling II may not have been comptetitive in the end; but the rest of the criteria were overflowing and, thus, outweighed the fact that it was a blow out. Louis-Schmeling II didn't last much longer than Louis-Paycheck; but it was far more important a bout...which is why I ranked it where I did.

Holyfield-Bowe is where it is because of several reasons. As I stated, the list is comprised of an amalgom of criteria, competitiveness is indeed one of them; but not the only one, and how each criteria relates to the other in the individual bouts is both subjective and varying, depending upon the bout.

Norton and Holmes fought just as hard as Bowe and Holyfield, but for 15 rounds as opposed to 12...and it was a closer contest than Bowe-Holyfield I. Holmes won the WBC title by 1 point on two different cards: a split decision with Holmes winning by only 2 points, so it was more competitive than Bowe-Holyfield, where Evander showcased his heart; but was ultimately beaten relatively easily from a points standard.

Likewise, Conn may have been a light-heavyweight; but the bout places higher than Bowe-Holyfield I becauase of two factors: 1. It was nearly an upset with the smaller Conn dominating the action, which was a complete surprise given Louis's standing....and 2. The dramatics of Louis's come from behind knock-out.

The Thrilla in Manilla was incredibly thrilling; but when you compare the competitiveness of the bout with the other criteria, it just doesn't make it. Frazier was considered shot, more or less, before the bout; and had to campaign actively chasing Ali around the world from fight to fight to even get Ali's interiest. The public wanted Ali-Foreman II; but George had disappeared from the scene. Ali didn't even train as hard for Frazier as he should have, which was reflected in his weighing 224; he expected a quick knock-out. Frazier's doggedness and surprising performance was a delight; but the third clash of these titans didn't really compare with the first because of where both were in their career.

[DiegoFuego]

I'd probably have included Kirk Johnson vs. Lou Savarese based on the political and cultural repercussions of that event. Look how it changed the world as we know it.

[Brockton Lip]

I thought it was great list, good job.

[butterfly1964]

Pretty good list.

[K-DOGG]

I'd probably have included Kirk Johnson vs. Lou Savarese based on the political and cultural repercussions of that event. Look how it changed the world as we know it.

Intelligent post as always.

[K-DOGG]

I thought it was great list, good job.

Thank you, Chum...much appreciated.

Same to you Butterfly.

[Easy-E]

Hmmm
Not a very good list.