Why Bernard Did Not Make My Top Twenty Middleweights Of All Time.

Collapse
Collapse
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
  • neverlast
    Contender
    Silver Champion - 100-500 posts
    • May 2004
    • 118
    • 21
    • 0
    • 6,271

    #1

    Why Bernard Did Not Make My Top Twenty Middleweights Of All Time.

    WHY BERNARD DID NOT MAKE MY TOP TWENTY MIDDLEWEIGHTS OF ALL TIME.

    Bernard Hopkins is the best middleweight of his era. It would be senseless to argue that point. He will more then likely be a first ballot Hall Of Famer when that time comes. He dominated the division for years. Even with his long reign and his signature win over Felix Trinidad I always felt he was a bit over rated. In fact I was more impressed with Bernard's win over Antonio Tarver then in any middleweight bout he ever had. It told me that Bernard should have moved up to light heavyweight long ago. He looked strong and carried the weight well. I think he may have hurt himself career wise staying at middleweight and fighting inferior opponents.

    Bernard lost his first pro fight which was at light heavyweight. He then began to work his way down to middleweight. On the way up he defeated some decent fighters like Percy Harris, Cleveland's Ralph Moncrief and Dennis Milton. Bernard challenged Roy Jones Jr. in 1993 for the vacant middleweight title and lost a decision to at the time, a superior middleweight.

    In 1994 he drew with Segundo Mercado in a bout for the title Jones vacated. In a rematch Hopkins stopped Mercado to win the title he would hold for years. During those years though, who did he really beat ?

    In his fourth defense he beat a pretty good boxer in John David Jackson. In his next bout he stopped tough Glencoffe Johnson, a future lightheavyweight champion.. He also stopped former title holder Simon Brown. Leading up to the Tito Trinidad bout Hopkins would post defenses against Robert Allen ( twice ), Antwon Nichols ( twice ), Syd Vanderpool and Keith Holmes.

    Hopkins exposed Trinidad as later Winky Wright would. Nevertheless Hopkins after toiling for years had finally gained super star status. Still he really did not cash in on it right away. Four defenses followed against lesser then stellar foes that led to a big fight against the smaller Oscar De La Hoya. As gifted as Oscar is, he started his career at 130 pounds. The bigger man beat the smaller man. A good win on paper for Bernard though.

    One more defense in 2005 led to his back to back losses to Jermain Taylor. Each decision was extremely close. Then he moved up and surprised Antonio Tarver.

    A while ago I was asked to rate the top 20 middleweights of all time for an International Boxing Research Organization poll. I did not have Bernard on that list and that was before the losses to Taylor. Why ???

    Well Bernard may have been a victim of his time. If you look at his defenses you have Steve Frank, Joe Lipsey, Bo James, Andrew Council, Robert Allen on three occasions, Echols twice, Syd Vanderpool and Carl Daniels. Yes he defeated Keith Holmes and William Joppy who both had at one time had held a piece of the title. Still neither one will be remembered as a great champion. Then there was his defense against Morrade Hakker.

    Segundo Mercado, Simon Brown, John David Jackson and Glen Johnson were all decent boxers but Brown was in the twilight of his career. What I'm trying to say here is that Bernard reigned over a very weak division. In his two key defenses he beat an over rated Trinidad and a smaller De La Hoya.

    Bernard was a sound technical fighter but he was not a big hitter although Joe Lipsey may argue that point. Hopkins was crafty, durable and most cases utterly boring. Even both of his setbacks to Taylor were snoozers.

    I think Bernard could have held his own against just about any middleweight in history but I believe there are several, more then twenty that could have beat him.
  • Larry Merchant
    Undisputed Champion
    Platinum Champion - 1,000-5,000 posts
    • Feb 2006
    • 1766
    • 138
    • 273
    • 8,846

    #2
    dude change your mind u will find no one that agrees with you

    Comment

    • Bozo_no no
      Palabras de Piedra
      Super Champion - 5,000-10,000 posts
      • Apr 2005
      • 8906
      • 416
      • 496
      • 16,069

      #3
      Originally posted by neverlast
      WHY BERNARD DID NOT MAKE MY TOP TWENTY MIDDLEWEIGHTS OF ALL TIME.

      Bernard Hopkins is the best middleweight of his era. It would be senseless to argue that point. He will more then likely be a first ballot Hall Of Famer when that time comes. He dominated the division for years. Even with his long reign and his signature win over Felix Trinidad I always felt he was a bit over rated. In fact I was more impressed with Bernard's win over Antonio Tarver then in any middleweight bout he ever had. It told me that Bernard should have moved up to light heavyweight long ago. He looked strong and carried the weight well. I think he may have hurt himself career wise staying at middleweight and fighting inferior opponents.

      Bernard lost his first pro fight which was at light heavyweight. He then began to work his way down to middleweight. On the way up he defeated some decent fighters like Percy Harris, Cleveland's Ralph Moncrief and Dennis Milton. Bernard challenged Roy Jones Jr. in 1993 for the vacant middleweight title and lost a decision to at the time, a superior middleweight.

      In 1994 he drew with Segundo Mercado in a bout for the title Jones vacated. In a rematch Hopkins stopped Mercado to win the title he would hold for years. During those years though, who did he really beat ?

      In his fourth defense he beat a pretty good boxer in John David Jackson. In his next bout he stopped tough Glencoffe Johnson, a future lightheavyweight champion.. He also stopped former title holder Simon Brown. Leading up to the Tito Trinidad bout Hopkins would post defenses against Robert Allen ( twice ), Antwon Nichols ( twice ), Syd Vanderpool and Keith Holmes.

      Hopkins exposed Trinidad as later Winky Wright would. Nevertheless Hopkins after toiling for years had finally gained super star status. Still he really did not cash in on it right away. Four defenses followed against lesser then stellar foes that led to a big fight against the smaller Oscar De La Hoya. As gifted as Oscar is, he started his career at 130 pounds. The bigger man beat the smaller man. A good win on paper for Bernard though.

      One more defense in 2005 led to his back to back losses to Jermain Taylor. Each decision was extremely close. Then he moved up and surprised Antonio Tarver.

      A while ago I was asked to rate the top 20 middleweights of all time for an International Boxing Research Organization poll. I did not have Bernard on that list and that was before the losses to Taylor. Why ???

      Well Bernard may have been a victim of his time. If you look at his defenses you have Steve Frank, Joe Lipsey, Bo James, Andrew Council, Robert Allen on three occasions, Echols twice, Syd Vanderpool and Carl Daniels. Yes he defeated Keith Holmes and William Joppy who both had at one time had held a piece of the title. Still neither one will be remembered as a great champion. Then there was his defense against Morrade Hakker.

      Segundo Mercado, Simon Brown, John David Jackson and Glen Johnson were all decent boxers but Brown was in the twilight of his career. What I'm trying to say here is that Bernard reigned over a very weak division. In his two key defenses he beat an over rated Trinidad and a smaller De La Hoya.

      Bernard was a sound technical fighter but he was not a big hitter although Joe Lipsey may argue that point. Hopkins was crafty, durable and most cases utterly boring. Even both of his setbacks to Taylor were snoozers.

      I think Bernard could have held his own against just about any middleweight in history but I believe there are several, more then twenty that could have beat him.

      Brutal take.

      Hear that? It was your credibility flusing down the potty.

      Comment

      • LiLHopkins
        The King of Uploads
        Platinum Champion - 1,000-5,000 posts
        • Jun 2006
        • 3827
        • 185
        • 132
        • 10,755

        #4
        Come on. Hopkins was The Undisputed Middleweight champion. the first since Marvin Hagler. He beat De La Hoya and was the first one to Beat Trinidad.

        Comment

        • El Jesus
          Undisputed Champion
          Super Champion - 5,000-10,000 posts
          • Sep 2004
          • 9468
          • 553
          • 191
          • 17,604

          #5
          Some writers/pundits just want to hear themselves talk, this is one of those instances. Who cares if he isnt in YOUR top 20, who are you?

          Comment

          • MetalVomit
            I love *****, Amigo.
            Unified Champion - 10,00-20,000 posts
            • Sep 2004
            • 12193
            • 817
            • 1,204
            • 22,041

            #6
            I know, 20 defenses of his middleweight title. what nonsense. top 20 middleweight, maybe top 100 if he's lucky (cue sarcasm smilie)

            Comment

            • Abe Attell
              Champion
              Platinum Champion - 1,000-5,000 posts
              • Apr 2006
              • 2226
              • 75
              • 0
              • 8,860

              #7
              What I don't understand is why Hopkins in some, if not most of the list I see, is rated higher that Roy Jones at middleweight...yes, Jones wasn't there for long, while Bernard was, but because Jones moved up, Bernard was able to become Champion, so he should kiss Roy's ass.

              Does anybody think that Jones couldn't have beaten Tito and Oscar?

              Comment

              • Rudyo
                ...............
                Unified Champion - 10,00-20,000 posts
                • Jun 2006
                • 10300
                • 530
                • 346
                • 53,384

                #8
                Everyone is on his coat-tails after he beat Antonio "Mason Dixon" Tarver.

                Comment

                • Abe Attell
                  Champion
                  Platinum Champion - 1,000-5,000 posts
                  • Apr 2006
                  • 2226
                  • 75
                  • 0
                  • 8,860

                  #9
                  Originally posted by Rudypoop
                  Everyone is on his coat-tails after he beat Antonio "Mason Dixon" Tarver.
                  Though was Tarver the same fighter?

                  not to make excuses for a fighter losing like so many do, but it does seem Tarver's (muslce) weight loss, the same "excuse" Antonio didn't want to hear from Roy, effected him greatly.

                  Not saying I wouldn't expect Bernard to win anyway, but Tarver didn't look the same, though Bernard wasn't in his prime either, and I am glad he shut Tarver's mouth up, so oh well

                  Comment

                  • CRESCENDOPOWER
                    The Golden Boy
                    Silver Champion - 100-500 posts
                    • Feb 2006
                    • 487
                    • 21
                    • 7
                    • 6,951

                    #10
                    Originally posted by neverlast
                    WHY BERNARD DID NOT MAKE MY TOP TWENTY MIDDLEWEIGHTS OF ALL TIME.
                    Some of your comments I actually can see where you are coming from. However, I would like to see your list.

                    Comment

                    Working...
                    TOP