Carlos Ortiz vs Flash Elorde (Video)

[grayfist]

why didnt it happen?

Sorry for this delayed response, flip! Multi-tasking, you see... And, for the life of me, why didn't I see your post as I browsed through the thread? Getting really old, I guess!

Anyway, I saw Asian's response and by and large I think he has it down pat. I recall though that Hamed made it a condition for facing Luisito that the Filipino gets by Cesar Soto in the return match between the Soto and Espinosa. Espinosa lost that resulting in the shelving of the Hamed fight. I could be wrong, though.

The Espadas fight came immediately after Luisito lost to Soto.

There are also some who claim that Hamed was not all that eager to fight Espinosa and preferred to face others. The Filipino boxing market was not all that significant at the time, outside the Philippines where an Espinosa fight generated the type of crowd that-- as reports have it-- got to the Guiness Book in terms of sheer number. With two consecutive Espinosa losses, I guess, Hamed was thinking a fight with the Filipino won't sell except in the Philippines, and he was in no mood to have his passport stamped with a Philippine seal just to fight there.

[xcaret]

Jelous Ones Envy

Fat Joe? He sucks.. hah

[grayfist]

I dunno, I don't think I could've explained the situation with Ortiz-Elorde anywhere near as good as you could. You could be a really good boxing writer, you are well versed in boxing history. My hat is off to you, seriously. That was impressive.

Thanks for the comments, Im gonna make sure to pay attention to your posts more.

I just wrote down the little I know of a handful of fights, pal.

If that impressed you, then, I'm thinking, this is one of my best days (of which I have few).

I've been reading your pieces (both Forum and Front Page) and I have benefited much in terms of information and insights. I am grabbing this chance to both congratulate you and thank you. I hope you'll keep them coming!

[miron_lang]

Sorry for this delayed response, flip! Multi-tasking, you see... And, for the life of me, why didn't I see your post as I browsed through the thread? Getting really old, I guess!

Anyway, I saw Asian's response and by and large I think he has it down pat. I recall though that Hamed made it a condition for facing Luisito that the Filipino gets by Cesar Soto in the return match between the Soto and Espinosa. Espinosa lost that resulting in the shelving of the Hamed fight. I could be wrong, though.

The Espadas fight came immediately after Luisito lost to Soto.

There are also some who claim that Hamed was not all that eager to fight Espinosa and preferred to face others. The Filipino boxing market was not all that significant at the time, outside the Philippines where I an Espinosa fight generated the type of crowd that-- as reports have it-- got to the Guiness Book in terms of sheer number.

Big robbery in the sotto fight. Hamed was really avoiding Lindol but i dont blame him. Espinosa is not that popular in the states and losing is a big possibility.


*More than 200K fans watched Lindol's WBC 126 title defense againts sotto in 1995

[flipside]

Sorry for this delayed response, flip! Multi-tasking, you see... And, for the life of me, why didn't I see your post as I browsed through the thread? Getting really old, I guess!

Anyway, I saw Asian's response and by and large I think he has it down pat. I recall though that Hamed made it a condition for facing Luisito that the Filipino gets by Cesar Soto in the return match between the Soto and Espinosa. Espinosa lost that resulting in the shelving of the Hamed fight. I could be wrong, though.

The Espadas fight came immediately after Luisito lost to Soto.

There are also some who claim that Hamed was not all that eager to fight Espinosa and preferred to face others. The Filipino boxing market was not all that significant at the time, outside the Philippines where an Espinosa fight generated the type of crowd that-- as reports have it-- got to the Guiness Book in terms of sheer number. With two consecutive Espinosa losses, I guess, Hamed was thinking a fight with the Filipino won't sell except in the Philippines, and he was in no mood to have his passport stamped with a Philippine seal just to fight there.

i think he got robbed in the soto fight. if i remember correctly.

[burglar]

Both Ortiz and Elorde are in the Hall of Fame; bums don't get there. If one claims they do, then, one should be ready to get an earful from the people who vote enshrinees into the Hall.

The clip features the second Ortiz-Elorde encounter at the MSG (the first was in Manila where Elorde also lost-TKO14). Ortiz went up the ring in NY only about a year older with 54 fights behind him; Elorde has had 101.

Before winning the World Lightweight crown, Ortiz won the vacant World Jr. Welterweight diadem as he stopped Kenny Lane in the 2nd (Lane was dropped but the fight was stopped on cuts) but lost it in his first title defense against Duilio Loi by MD. Loi and Ortiz met again to settle the controversy. Loi knocked Ortiz down in the 6th before going on to settle the score with a UD.After two fights at Jr. Welter following the Loi loss, Ortiz went down to 135 lbs. and took the title from Joe Brown-- "Ole' Bones".

On the other hand, Elorde started his career at Bantamweight, tried to win the world Featherweight crown from the great Sandy Saddler (whom he had beaten in an earlier non-title tiff), failed, then moved up to rule the Jr. Lightweight class for so long that he currently holds the distinction of having been the longest ruling champ in that division's history. He was undisputed.
It was while still Jr. Lightweight champion that Elorde challenged Ortiz for the Lightweight title that the latter held. Elorde earned the right to face Ortiz as he held the Orient Lightweight diadem alongside his Jr. Lightweight title.

Between their two meetings, Elorde and Ortiz had a common foe:

Ortiz met Ismael Laguna twice. He lost to Laguna in the first meeting thus enabling the latter to reign for some 6 months before surrendering the title back to Ortiz in the return match.

Elorde knocked Laguna down twice (in the fourth and then the 9th) on the way to a UD win in their only meeting which was a non-title Lightweight bout that came after Laguna had already returned the title to Ortiz.

Just for the record: Ortiz is Puerto Rican.

Everytime Grayfist makes a reply, I make it a point to read it because I know I'll learn a lot...KUDOS to you Sir..Your one of the best member in the site...
As for Xcaret,,, quit fabricating facts cause it makes you more and more IDIOT...
Ortiz= MEXICAN????
Elorde the HOF= a BUM????

XCARIOT= IDIOT !!!!!

[Mr. Ryan]

i was waiting for that to happen. that would've culminated espinosa's career if he won against hamed. if they fought who do you think would win?

Its hard to really tell because by that time Hamed was on the slide. He had a real issue with unorthodox guys like Soto and Sanchez, so its very possible that Espinosa could've given him a tough fight. I'm not sure, of course Hamed would be favored but something tells me Espinosa would've given him hell early until Hamed's power started to show up. Espinosa was a big puncher, but Hamed was other wordly.

Grayfist, I'm not exactly sure cuz its been awhile since I've considered these fighters lol. I remember Espadas took the title in a bull**** decision, but that Soto also beat Espinosa late for a title. Not sure which came first lol. Someone boxrec it please?

Xcaret, Fat Joe and Big Pun are many times greater than any wack Mexican rapper who ever lived. Mexican rap sucks, so deal with it. Stop hating, you know you love my ****.

[flipside]

Fat Joe? He sucks.. hah

weak ass comeback.

[flipside]

Its hard to really tell because by that time Hamed was on the slide. He had a real issue with unorthodox guys like Soto and Sanchez, so its very possible that Espinosa could've given him a tough fight. I'm not sure, of course Hamed would be favored but something tells me Espinosa would've given him hell early until Hamed's power started to show up. Espinosa was a big puncher, but Hamed was other wordly.

Grayfist, I'm not exactly sure cuz its been awhile since I've considered these fighters lol. I remember Espadas took the title in a bull**** decision, but that Soto also beat Espinosa late for a title. Not sure which came first lol. Someone boxrec it please?

Xcaret, Fat Joe and Big Pun are many times greater than any wack Mexican rapper who ever lived. Mexican rap sucks, so deal with it. Stop hating, you know you love my ****.

are there mexican rappers? whoa!

[grayfist]

Big robbery in the sotto fight. Hamed was really avoiding Lindol but i dont blame him. Espinosa is not that popular in the states and losing is a big possibility.


*More than 200K fans watched Lindol's WBC 126 title defense againts sotto in 1995

One can only wish that the current Fil-Am market existed then. That would have flashed dollar signs in front of Hamed's eyes and prod him towards facing Espinosa inspite of that Soto OFFICIAL result.

200,000! That's HUGE numbers even for any other sport!