Retro thread: James Toney: "There will never be a White Heavyweight Champion"

[+= El Jefe=+]

hey, most = all

I see your the product of the public school system

what does that have to do with it???


and from your comments i can see you are a product of no school system......

[Abe Attell]

rocky marciano...only undeafeated heavyweight champ even till this day
all the talent between all the black champs put together couldnt do that

Most overrated record in boxing...I guess Foreman, Ali, Tyson, etc. couldn't have that same record fighting the same competition



Priem Rocky Marciano vs Light Heavyweights = hard earned victories

Frazier vs one of the greatest light heavyweights of all time, Foster = Destruction

Tyson vs one of the greatest light heavyweights of all time, Spinks = Destruction


I said it before and I will say it again, Maricano was a great light-heavyweight/crusierweight, but to count his record among other great heavyweights, I don't think so
Ali's record is much better

[Smashing]

cheers for the thread Butterfly...great read...everyones got there own opinion, yours is pretty good..

[BrooklynBomber]

Do you really think Toney is racist?

Maybe he is or maybe he is doing it to get fights:
"I hate White people, they can't fight", if Toney continues to say stuff on those lines, don't you think people will want the "White" Champions to fight him to kick his ass?
What does that mean for Toney, BIG ****ING MONEY


Toney is trained by FREDDIE ROACH, and if you haven't noticed, Freddie looks Vanilla...I am also not sure on James's original trainer, but I thought I heard he was a Vanilla ***ish guy, though I may be way off...but if he was "***ish" I guess the person doesn't count as not only a "White" person, but not a person at all since he killed Jesus and they are the devil, so a "Black" man and the "***" deserve eachother
I also would like to know if James Toney is "racist" how come I have seen pictures of him smiling and having his arm around the "WHITE MAN"

It's all about getting into the mind of the people that need to pay his bills, at least I think so

No, infact that attitude can cost him his fights. These guys will jsut use Toney as a clown and a side show, fighting against each other and then pointing at toney and saying "look at that little, fat, black man -- he is a racist and thats why he does not deserve any of the belt fights."
BY his attitude, Toney is giving bad reputation to other black fighters. He is making a contrast between a black man and a white man, where should not be any contrast. He is showing that guys like Wlad, Oleg etc. got class and sportsmanship, and he does not.
SO he mostly does a disservice to his fellow african americans.
I doubt that african americans wnat to be represented like that in a HW division.

[beez721]

James Toney: "There will never be a White Heavyweight Champion"

from ESB.com

06.04.06 - By Tyson Craemer: The sport of boxing no longer has the appeal it once valiantly personified. This lack of interest can be rightfully placed on the demise of the heavyweight division. Thought to many as the greatest prize in sports, the heavyweight championship drives the boxing public. Boxing had a good run in the 90’s, but towards the end of the decade, it really took a dive. The Heavyweight Champion Lennox Lewis, although a great title holder, was more of a lackluster ambassador for the sport as his performances were fairly dull and his promotion was little to none. The average sports fan may have not even known who Lewis was, where as Mike Tyson and Evander Holyfield were household names.

Since Lewis’ retirement, the heavyweight division has seen no apparent frontrunner. Vitali Klitschko, thought to be the savior of the heavies, recently retired after a short stay as the WBC champion. We currently have four heavyweight title holders, still, there has yet to be a unification to distinguish which one is the true champion.

However, we have a major shift happening in boxing. Since the fall of the Soviet Union in 1991, we have seen a substantial influx of Ex-Soviet fighters join the pro ranks. Russian fighters have dominated amateur boxing for quite some time, but like the communist government of Cuba, they had not been permitted to compete professionally. As these Eastern European countries were newly formed, so was their claim in boxing.

The first recognized name out of this Ex-Soviet stable was the Russian born Kostya Tszyu. Within 10 years of turning pro, he had already won four titles and had unified the junior welterweight division for the first time since 1968. Now retired, Tszyu is considered a first ballot hall-of-famer and possibly the greatest junior welterweight of all time.

Currently, out of the 170 top ten ranked boxers throughout every division, over 40 of them are European. Within the 68 titleholders, 17 are from Europe, and, out of the 7 unified champions in the sport, 2 of them are also European. Most importantly, in Ring Magazine’s Top 10 Pound-For-Pound rankings, there are two Europeans ranked #5 and #8 respectively. There are only three Americans ranked within this list. These facts are beginning to scare some in the U.S. boxing industry. This past month, we have seen two of U.S. boxing’s biggest names, Jeff Lacy and Lamon Brewster, not only loose but made to look foolish by their Euro counterparts. Boxing media has recently brought much attention to this European domination with many articles and discussions about the shift. Nevertheless, not all of this attention has been positive.

Last month, boxing held a match for the WBC Heavyweight Title between two Americans, Hasim Rahman and James Toney. In what many were hoping for a definite answer to the heavyweight division, we were left with nothing. For 12 rounds, fans watched a boring, unmotivated fight in which neither fighter showed signs of champion qualities. Originally, Oleg Maskaev, an Eastern European, was scheduled to face Rahman after winning a title eliminator and becoming the #1 ranked challenger. But, the WBC mysteriously changed their verdict and named Toney, ranked #5 at the time, as the mandatory challenger although recently being suspended from boxing for the use of steroids.

At the post fight press conference, in which Maskaev attended, the viewing audience saw Rahman and Toney being praised as if their performances were anything more than amateurish. After discussing a possible rematch and being challenged several times as to Maskaev’s claim to the title fight, James Toney responded with his own comments. In what seemed as some of the most ignorant and racist statements in modern boxing, James was allowed to speak his mind without any correction.

These are some of the beliefs Toney conveyed:

"Rahman is a real fighter; we aren’t nothing like these Germans and Russians you all trying to build up."

"We Afro-Americans... we like to fight… we ain't scared to fight nobody."

"You all keep trying to build up the Great White Hype. It’s not gonna happen."

“The Klitschkos, the walking dead man over in Germany, Valuev.”

"It’s not going to happen. You all can stop all that. Stop it."

"There isn't going to be a white heavyweight champ, unless you see him Europe... and that's real."

“I’m gonna keep it real. I’m not gonna hide nothing.”

Quoted from MaxBoxing.com’s: Rahman/Toney Post Presser

The ironic premise about these statements is that James Toney was fighting for Vitali Kliitschko’s vacated WBC title. Before retiring, Vitali, a white European, was ranked as the #1 heavyweight in world for over a year. The fact of the matter is that James Toney could not beat Rahman, a man who Oleg Maskaev had previously knocked out. Instead of praising the deserving Maskaev, he would rather insult his culture and heritage. When he should be crediting Europeans for their recent uprising in the sport, he mocks and insults them. As a guest on the Max Kellerman show broadcasted by Fox Sports, James Toney was stated in saying that Europeans are dumb.

In the following weeks of Toney vs. Rahman, we saw Lamon Brewster, the WBO Heavyweight Champion and #4 ranked heavyweight by Ring Magazine; dramatically loose his title to Serguei Lyakhovich of Belarus. Brewster, winning 8 of his last 9 fights by KO, was considered the most dangerous heavyweight, and though Ring ranked him at #4, many other respected lists had him between 1 and 3. On the other hand, Lyakhovich was still green. This was his first title fight, he was coming off a 16 month layoff due to injuries, and he was not even ranked in the WBO top ten. Brewster, known for intimidating his opponents with talk of his street life, could not get to Lyakhovich. The Lyakhovich team had their own strategy, stating that Serguei has lived in places that would make Harlem look like a palace.

The fight turned out to be the most exciting heavyweight title bouts since Lewis vs. Klitschko in 2003. In what could be called a “boxing clinic”, Lyakhovich took Brewster to school. Brewster did have two big moments in the fight, one of them when he dropped the Belarusian, but Serguei was far superior. Lyakhovich won in all departments: speed, footwork, stamina, chin, power, and defense. Brewster was able stay in the fight based only on heart and will as he was nearly knocked out on more than one occasion. As the fight ended, Brewster, bloodied and swollen, seemed to be in disbelief along with the whole crowd. After Serguei was awarded the belt, he stated that he came to this country with nothing more than $100 in his pocket in which he borrowed.

Currently two of four heavyweight titlists are white. In two weeks, we will see the rematch between Wladimir Klitschko and Chris Byrd the IBF champion. In their WBO title fight during 2000, Klitschko nearly pitched a shut-out knocking Byrd down twice. If history repeats itself, that count will be three. Rahman, the owner of the WBC strap, is being forced to defend against Maskaev who knocked him out five years ago. Based on the outcome, boxing may have four white heavyweight champions by summer.

With that said, boxing or sports all together should not revolve around race. However, many like to bring the topic into the equation. James Toney, known for his over the top comments, has done it on multiple occasions. His actions have never been questioned directly, but his supporters have many excuses. Truly, there is no justification for this type of behavior. It must be rectified, and I challenge all those in the boxing industry to do so.

In response to the title of this article, I have my own statement: James Toney, he will never be a Heavyweight Champion.

lol,,that toney is one smart guy

[potatoes]

BWAHAHAHAHA! Let him off? Toney creamed that punk ***** who landed about 3 or 4 good, legal punches all fight. Give Peter 3 bouts...he's knocking Toney down in NONE.

The Toney hate is rediculous. Do you not realize boxing needs MORE people like Toney...more interesting personalities...more fighters who will fight anyone at any weight (not this PBF ducking ****)?

I just don't get a lot of you. You cheer and love PBF, who hand-picks fights he feels he can win, beats women, consistently disgraces the sport and other boxers careers. Toney, who talks ****** comical racial ****, doesn't beat women, fights anyone at anytime, gets CONSTANTLY hated on. It's rediculous.

And you guys now think he's RACIST? Get the **** OUTTA HERE ****** asses. He said the European line. He's coached by Freddie Roach, a white guy. As for American heavies? He's right. We'll likely not see another for a LONG time because boxing just isn't big here anymore. it's not that we can't fight (see UFC/MMA/Pride), it's that the corruption, the robberies of decisions for rightful winners like James Toney, and the hype of boxing in the US is next to nothing. Half my friends don't even know WHO James Toney is.

See, whites from the US don't see Europeans as 'white', even though they are. Sometimes the term is too broad. It's like black people from the US and Africa don't consider themselves the 'same', even though the color is the same.

I think Toney got robbed because of WHO he is...sort of how Augustus lost to Burton because of who he is. No objective person could have it 116(117)-111. Someone didn't like his comments. Someone didn't like James Toney the person and decided to insert their bias in the decision. Period. There is NO OTHER WAY of looking at the fight.

Plus, I don't get this 'team' mentality with race. Skin color is just an easy way to differenciate ourselves from others. I don't see two guys fighting and start pulling for the white guy. Really, it's the ********** that do this mostly.

If James Toney is so good for boxing why can't he draw the fans? In Manchester Ricky Hatton sold over 20,000 ticket in 2 hours. Toney can't even do half of that. Just because he gave a ****** like Sam Peter a boxing lesson means nothing.

[SquareCircle]

If James Toney is so good for boxing why can't he draw the fans? In Manchester Ricky Hatton sold over 20,000 ticket in 2 hours. Toney can't even do half of that. Just because he gave a ****** like Sam Peter a boxing lesson means nothing.

The same reason Hopkins and Wright aren't draws. Toney's a bigger draw than Wright though, and probably Hopkins as well...But my point being, defensive fighters, while they have a longer prime, are always less of a draw than a swarmer or slugger.

[kayjay]

This is shameful.

I kind of, kind of, like James Toney. But this . . . . . .

[DiegoFuego]

There still isn't a white heavyweight champ. There's 3 white heavyweight titleholders.

[kayjay]

There still isn't a white heavyweight champ. There's 3 white heavyweight titleholders.

True, but are you backing his statement?