What in the world made you Categorize it like this? You've proved my point! Hagler v LaMotta even match up! Hearns v Gavilan even matchup! Duran v Graziano same! Robinson by a mile!
Alright now I think about it Fullmer and Basilio were better fighters than LaMotta. Either one of these almost measure up to Hagler. I have seen both of them fight Robinson several times and their both as tough as you get
I know Robinson and his reputation but not much of his opponents unlike Leonard who fought in 5 different weight divisions and fought the equally skilled and named opponents in his era.
So I'm picking Leonard.
Floyd Mayweather
Wifred Benitez - Puerto Ricorican
Roberto Duran 3x - Panamanian
Ayub Kalule - Ugandan
Thomas Hearns 2x
Marvin Hagler
Donny Lalonde - Canadian
Hector Camacho - Puerto Rican
Hagler is seriously overrated by young fans. LaMotta was very close to him in historical stature as a middleweight. Hagler was just fortunate to not live at a time where you needed to take a dive just to get a title shot, as LaMotta was forced to do eventually, though he initially tried his hardest to avoid going that route.
As for Duran, the guy was a natural lightweight, not a middleweight or even a welterweight. I'm not trying to diminish Hagler's legend because he had a close fight with Duran, but LaMotta would have beat the living piss out of the smaller Duran all night. Not because he was p4p better, but because he was a natural and very strong, all time great middleweight with the physicality and mindset that destroyed smaller men who tried to stand in front of him. He would not be hesitant like Hagler was.
Now Duran was a great P4P fighter, one of the five best lightweights ever, but he wasn't even a top 20 middleweight of all time IMO.
Hearns was a great welterweight and the stoppage win over him is a big feather in Leonard's cap.
So to me Hearns and Hagler were the two greats of comparable size that Leonard beat and even then he drew once with Hearns and the Hagler fight was close. With Robinson, it was rarely close. When it was, he rematched the opponent.
So, Robinson consistently beat better fighters than Leonard. No, beating 3 of what you consider "A" class hall of famers is not better than beating eight "B" class HOF'ers (as if what you think of them actually has an impact on how good they actually were).
To me Hagler was neck and neck with LaMotta. A win over LaMotta is just as good as a win over Hagler.
Duran was too small to be considered an all time great at welterweight or middleweight but still holds a win over Leonard. Robinson would have wiped the canvas clean with the much smaller Duran just as LaMotta would have.
To conclude, Leonard was great and a top ten welterweight but Robinson had more skill, talent, and a better career. I mean look, he had more than twice as many KOs as Leonard had fights. Anything Leonard could do, Robinson could as well, with the addition of a better knockout punch.
Damn I am exhausted, and that was not a very organized post but I'm too tired to spend any more time than this. Robinson beat the better opposition, but as I just realized the post is who "fought" the best opposition and suddenly Robinson wins by even more of a landslide when you consider guys he lost to like Archer, Giardello, and Maxim.
Wow, I just realized that the thread isn't even about who beat the better opposition but who FOUGHT it and now, with that said, the answer is Robinson in an even bigger way. Not just my opinion, but a fact. You at least have some kind of platform to make an argument if the question was who beat the best guys, but since it's "who fought the best opposition" Ray Robinson wins and it's not even close.
Last edited by Kid Achilles; 09-10-2006, 09:07 PM.
Hearns - 7 time champion in of the top P4P of all time
Benitiz - Considered by many the greatest Puerto Rican boxer of all time and of the top P4P guys
No fighter canmatch Leonard wins, lets not forget he beat many other good boxers.
Leonard even admitted that he waited for Hagler to get old so he could fight him...WOW, what a guy.
Robinson had to move up to middleweight in order to fight for a belt since they avoided him at welter
I wonder if you put Leonard in the same era and he had to fight the exact same competition and the amount of fights, what his record would have been...
Carmen Basillio x 2
Gene Fuller x 4
Joey Maxim
Rocky Graziano
Randy Turpin
Jake La Motta
Carl Olsen
Kid Gavilian
Henry Armstrong
Sammy Angott
Fritzie Zivic
And the list goes on and on, Those of you that really know their boxing will know that this really isnt a contest and that Sugar Ray Robinson wins hands down plus the guy fought over 173 times
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