Bert Sugar's Top 100 Fighters Of All Time...

[The Noose]

Chavez was a very skilled fighter.
There was quality in every shot.

[El Jesus]

Hopkins never had the repeated wars Chavez did so of course his body is more preserved then Chavez battle worn fights.

But Hopkins more skilled then Chavez, thats your opinon, one that i laugh at but thats your opinon.

If Hopkins showed more heart and fire....if Hopkins would have dug down deep like a true great warrrior,no doubt he would have beat Taylor, but Hopkins didn't have it in him and was worried of himself getting ko'd. Hopkins on his bicyle is a techniquen, but Delahoya on his bicyle against Trinidad is a chiken, ok, i see the double standards.

This analogy is awful. Hopkins was on the verge of knocking Taylor out, but he simply got started too late in the first fight. The second fight was a very very tough fight to score, and even tougher to really judge.

You can laugh all you want at the thought of Hopkins being better than Chavez. What takes more skill, blocking punches with your face, or getting out of the way? Basically, the "wars" you speak of happened because Chavez didint have enough defensive prowess to move and hit, Wars happen because one fighter isnt good enough defensively to stifle his oppoenents strong point. Chavez at 41 and Hopkins at 41 arent even comparable.



The fact that when Chavez was in his mid 30's, and took on the young up and comer De La Hoya, he was out worked, outclassed and out hustled. When Hopkins took on a young up and comer, many people feel he should have come out the winner and came close to knocking his ass out in the first fight. Did Chavez at 41 move up 2 weight classes and beat THE RING CHAMPION of that division? Just because you go through wars, doesnt make you a highly skilled fighter.

You talk about being a warrior, you talk about skill, history will say that Hopkins had 20 straight title defenses, history will talk about him having moved up to light heavy at ****in 41 and outclassing a fighter 6 years younger than him.

History says that at 38 Chavez was already past it, while Hopkins was knocking out Trinidad, a fight that Hopkins was the underdog. You talk about "worried about getting knocked out", thats called being intelligent which takes a certain amount of SKILL to adhere to. Not just walking straight in and taking all you can take and dishing it out.


Chavez was a great man and a great fighter, but he is NOT more skilled than Bernard, Bernard used tactics while sometimes dirty, were always effective, after awhile, it became harder and harder just to lay a ****ing glove on him, and this happened as he got even older.

De La Hoya and Hopkins cant be compared, De La Hoya ran when he didint have to, Hopkins "ran" as apart of not only not getting hit, but also mostly because Hopkins loves to catch you while you think hes running, Hopkins is so ****in sneaky you just never know what angle he will come from or try to come at you from. Its boring to watch, but it works and its what kept his career going for so long. De La Hoya ran and it looked bad because he was ahead and in the biggest fight of his ****in career, and he was visibly trying to skate away with a win. Hopkins always came on as the fight went on, ive just about never seen him fade as a fight went on.

[maxorido]

+1 good post man.

[wmute]

All i said is that Whitiker had to cheat to beat Chavez.

if I had a habit of putting quotes in my sig, this would be a great one

[El Jesus]

if I had a habit of putting quotes in my sig, this would be a great one

Sometimes people just dont want to accept reality, so they manipulate it and spin it any way that they would like. It is the same mentality that fighters who dont know when to quit suffer from, on this board, some people just dont know when to back down and admit they were not only wrong, but concede that their arguments and ideas are wrong also. For some people its just difficult to do this.

[j]

personally, i think bert sugar's list is ******ed. but that is just my opinion as well as his list is simply his opinion.

don't take it as written in stone.

[j]

let me elaborate a bit more for the sake of this discussion. and, btw, i don't necessarily believe in number rankings much.

jack johnson should be ranked higher - much higher.

harry greb, known as the dirtiest fighter ever, how the hell can he be ranked so high.

jack dempsey should be a bit higher ranked as well.

joe walcott - shoulde be ranked higher.
marvin hagler - should be ranked higher.
thomas hearns - should be ranked higher.
stanley ketchel - should be ranked lower.
no kostya tszyu?!?

i certainly could go on....

[ferocity]

This analogy is awful. Hopkins was on the verge of knocking Taylor out, but he simply got started too late in the first fight. The second fight was a very very tough fight to score, and even tougher to really judge.

The second fight is more so where my opinion was of the Taylor fight, even the first fight him as a Champion should have at least tried to win the first few rounds. Even in the later rounds i felt he didn't go all out.

You can laugh all you want at the thought of Hopkins being better than Chavez. What takes more skill, blocking punches with your face, or getting out of the way? Basically, the "wars" you speak of happened because Chavez didint have enough defensive prowess to move and hit, Wars happen because one fighter isnt good enough defensively to stifle his oppoenents strong point. Chavez at 41 and Hopkins at 41 arent even comparable.

See, you are ignorant to Chavez career and his fighting style. Go and pick up some Chavez fights. Hopkins running is supposed to be skillfull, you call his running in the Taylor and Tarver fights skillfull? Yeah right.

The fact that when Chavez was in his mid 30's, and took on the young up and comer De La Hoya, he was out worked, outclassed and out hustled. When Hopkins took on a young up and comer, many people feel he should have come out the winner and came close to knocking his ass out in the first fight. Did Chavez at 41 move up 2 weight classes and beat THE RING CHAMPION of that division? Just because you go through wars, doesnt make you a highly skilled fighter.

LOL! Now are you trying to compare Hopkins opponets to Chavez opponets? Hopkins stayed at middleweight cause he couldn't compete with the fighters at the bigger divisions and he stayed at middleweight for the money and to wait for the smaller fighters to come up or for him to lose weight and go down and fight them. Hopkins.

You talk about being a warrior, you talk about skill, history will say that Hopkins had 20 straight title defenses, history will talk about him having moved up to light heavy at ****in 41 and outclassing a fighter 6 years younger than him.

History will also note that he was not in a tough era of great Middlweight fighters and that when he finlly faced a top young challenger he was defeated twice. His jump to light heavyweight is one he should have made years ago. They will also say he was only undisputed champion by a few title fights and thats it and soon after lost his title. Look at the bs he pulled with Trinidad, clearly Hopkins didn't want to get Trinidad at his best, as was evident by his lack of giving Trinidad a rematch.

History says that at 38 Chavez was already past it, while Hopkins was knocking out Trinidad, a fight that Hopkins was the underdog. You talk about "worried about getting knocked out", thats called being intelligent which takes a certain amount of SKILL to adhere to. Not just walking straight in and taking all you can take and dishing it out.

Hopkins was more scared of Trinidad which is why he had to box to save his life, and refused to give Trinidad his rematch so for the time being Trinidad retired. Hopkins was no warrior in his fight with Trinidad or skilled fighter.

Chavez was a great man and a great fighter, but he is NOT more skilled than Bernard, Bernard used tactics while sometimes dirty, were always effective, after awhile, it became harder and harder just to lay a ****ing glove on him, and this happened as he got even older.

LOL! Thats your opinion of a great fighter, but if your ever a boxing trainer teach them better. He used his ****en legs like a runner would. Your hate for Chavez is so noticable.

De La Hoya and Hopkins cant be compared, De La Hoya ran when he didint have to, Hopkins "ran" as apart of not only not getting hit, but also mostly because Hopkins loves to catch you while you think hes running, Hopkins is so ****in sneaky you just never know what angle he will come from or try to come at you from. Its boring to watch, but it works and its what kept his career going for so long. De La Hoya ran and it looked bad because he was ahead and in the biggest fight of his ****in career, and he was visibly trying to skate away with a win. Hopkins always came on as the fight went on, ive just about never seen him fade as a fight went on.

LoL! Now you are even hateing Delahoya to bring up a fighter like Hopkins Hopkins performace v. Taylor ****** balls, Hopkins performance v. Tarver ****** balls and is over rated as hell. Hopkins is over rated as hell by a lot of young-in's, you just happen to be one of them.

[Verstyle]

tyson should be at least 50. damn old man

[BmoreBrawler]

thomas hearns before tyson?