Great Article On James Toney And Saturday's Fight...

[DiegoFuego]

Couldn't agree more. I ended up with two 10-10 rounds and one 9-9...and many of the rounds were extremely close; very hard fight to score. Neither man dominated, IMHO.

That proves it right there. You score even rounds, which is a cop-out for anybody who's fighter is being dominated. There are no even rounds without point deductions or knockdowns. Not in this day and age.

[DiegoFuego]

That article is the truth and I have to say this again, i'm done with this bull**** biased sport. DONE Somebody got paid that night. Two bull**** Judges !

I'm almost done with it. Once I let this fight go, I'll probably walk away from boxing for a while. I'll follow Corrales, Taylor, Mayweather, and Pacquiao, but that's it. This is just rotten.

[GunStar]

I'm almost done with it. Once I let this fight go, I'll probably walk away from boxing for a while. I'll follow Corrales, Taylor, Mayweather, and Pacquiao, but that's it. This is just rotten.

I feel you brother, but I can never leave boxing, it's my love!

[K-DOGG]

That proves it right there. You score even rounds, which is a cop-out for anybody who's fighter is being dominated. There are no even rounds without point deductions or knockdowns. Not in this day and age.

Do you have to insist on being such a complete dumb-ass?

Seriously. I don't have "a fighter"....there's not one fighter out there I care about over another one. They're all the same to me, I respect and admire them all the same. I have no favorites. If anything, I've been a James Toney fan for years.

Just because you obvioiusly have no concept of what it means to be unbiased, it doesn't mean that nobody can.

I AM UNBIASED WHEN IT COME TO TWO MEN IN THE RING.

I HAVEN'T HAD A "FAVORITE FIGHTER" FOR YEAAARS....AND COULD GIVE A **** WHO WINS ANY PARTICULAR MATCH.

I watch boxing because I enjoy the sport....not the sportsmen.

Got it?!

[K-DOGG]

Easy work for Toney. The fight wasn't close at all, so don't try to save face by saying it was, K-Dogg. You made a bold prediction, but you were completely wrong on this one. Toney dominated that fight in terms of rounds. If you can find 5 rounds to give to Peter, then you are reaching really hard.

Hey, it's not my fault that you obvioiusly:

1. Love James Toney so much that you fall into that category of fans who watch your favorite fighter more than the fight.

&

2. Obviously have no clue as to how to score a professional prize fight.

[Bozo_no no]

Hey, it's not my fault that you obvioiusly:

1. Love James Toney so much that you fall into that category of fans who watch your favorite fighter more than the fight.

&

2. Obviously have no clue as to how to score a professional prize fight.

You're right that Diego doesn't know how to score fights.

But he got this one right, as did a vast majority of the boxing fans and media.

Not a difficult fight to score.

Toney out threw, out landed, and made Peter miss the majority of the fight.

Peter's connect % was low, he landed very few flush shots (clean effective punching), and his agressivness wasn't effecitve.

When you see 80 -85 % of this site voting that Toney won, it says something. That's a huge chunk of people who dislike Toney voting .

The polls everywhere were the same wide split.

[K-DOGG]

You're right that Diego doesn't know how to score fights.

But he got this one right, as did a vast majority of the boxing fans and media.

Not a difficult fight to score.

Toney out threw, out landed, and made Peter miss the majority of the fight.

Peter's connect % was low, he landed very few flush shots (clean effective punching), and his agressivness wasn't effecitve.

When you see 80 -85 % of this site voting that Toney won, it says something. That's a huge chunk of people who dislike Toney voting .

The polls everywhere were the same wide split.

I have no arguent that Toney won the fight; he did, clearly. I went back and watched the fight again; and the two 10-10 rounds I'd scored, I ended up spliting...the 9-9 round I'd scored I ended up changing to a 10-8 round for Toney, which made my finally tally 115-112 for James.

My whole point is that there is more to scoring a professional prize fight that just clean punching, which is how the amateurs are scored. In several of the rounds, Peter had one punch that equaled 10 of Toney's.....power and perceived dominance is what Professional boxing is all about. If one fighter has the edge in power, the other one better make him look like an amateur to win clearly.....James, in some rounds, did that; but as has been the case throughout his career....most notably against Dave Tiberri.....he took time off in some rounds, which counts against him; and is why I say he didn't "dominate", persay. If James had fought all fight as he did in his spurts, he would have easily dominated the less-learned Peter. His sporatic inactivity is what has always driven me nuts as far as Toney is concened.....and what I was trying to emphasise.

[Bozo_no no]

My whole point is that there is more to scoring a professional prize fight that just clean punching, which is how the amateurs are scored. In several of the rounds, Peter had one punch that equaled 10 of Toney's.....power and perceived dominance is what Professional boxing is all about.

More to, yes. But clean and effective punching is the most important of the factors. Not saying the others should be ignored.

Here's a good write up on scoring:

CLEAN PUNCHING: As stated earlier this is the most easily recognized of all the categories. Sharp crisp stinging jabs, clean flush right hands, short tight hooks and uppercuts. These are the punches that stand out and catch the eye. The fighter who is landing these punches is most likely controlling the fight regardless of the other three categories!


EFFECTIVE AGGRESSION: I believe this is the most misinterpreted of the four categories. Effective aggression is more than just a fighter moving forward. Effective aggression is what Frazier did to Ali in Super Fight I. Effective aggression is what Duran did to Leonard in their first fight. What Frazier and Duran did was score effectively and cleanly as they were moving forward carrying the action setting the pace. The effective aggressor must be scoring and landing. A good example of what effective aggression isn't, is what we saw in the Chavez-Whitaker fight. Yes, Chavez was the aggressor throughout the fight, but he wasn't scoring cleanly if at all while applying the pressure. The same applies in the Hopkins-Trinidad bout. Trinidad was moving towards Hopkins but in the process was getting hit pretty regularly and was easily being outscored. While Trinidad was the aggressor, he wasn't landing or scoring, his aggression was completely neutralized by Hopkins. The effective aggressor must be connecting with clean punches while not being tattooed on the way in.


RING GENERALSHIP: This also is somewhat left up to an individuals interpretation. Basically ring general ship is the fighter exhibiting the cleaner and more professional boxing form and skill. Another words, he looks like a professional fighter, and not some wild swinging novice. He shows his skill in throwing his punches correctly and understands how to impose what he wants to do in the ring while negating what his opponent is trying to do. Ring generalship also is when a fighter can dictate the flow of the fight in order to breakdown his opponents style. Another example would be a fighter going to the body if the opponent has protected his face well, leaving the body as the more viable target.

DEFENSE: Defense is pretty much self explanatory. This category is basically how a fighter protects himself in the ring. Defense is making your opponent miss with his punches. This can be achieved a number of ways. A fighter can use his legs to move away from the punch, or he can slip to one side or the other to make the punch miss. He also can block the shot with his gloves and arms by keeping his elbows in and his hands up so he is in position to nullify and block the punch.

All four categories are important while trying to score a fight but, it's quite obvious that clean punching and effective aggression are what really dictates who wins the round. Clean punching is what both fighters try to do from the onset of every bout. The goal in the fight is to subdue the opponent. To do this a fighter must use his hands to strike his opposition in order to render him unconscious or ineffective to gain control of the fight. The only way one fighter can gain the advantage over his opponent is to strike him, it's really quite simple. Without one fighter scoring and landing clean punches, effective aggression, ring generalship, and defense are a non-factor.

Outside of throwing and landing more shots, Toney made Peter miss wildly. Peter's agression was a very small factor because of how infrequent he was able to land a clean shot.

Toney's punches were clean and crisp and in abundance.

I don't think this was a difficult fight to score.

[K-DOGG]

More to, yes. But clean and effective punching is the most important of the factors. Not saying the others should be ignored.

Here's a good write up on scoring:


Outside of throwing and landing more shots, Toney made Peter miss wildly. Peter's agression was a very small factor because of how infrequent he was able to land a clean shot.

Toney's punches were clean and crisp and in abundance.

I don't think this was a difficult fight to score.

All of those scoring criteria I am familiar with; but thank you. As for the difficulty of the scoring, we're just going to have to agree to disagree. I noticed when I rewatched it that Al Bernstein stated several times that it was a difficult fight to score, so I don't feel unjustifed in saying it was.

Perception is a large part of scoring a fight....and Toney's "time-outs" didn't help him in this regard.

[OctoberRed]

That proves it right there. You score even rounds, which is a cop-out for anybody who's fighter is being dominated. There are no even rounds without point deductions or knockdowns. Not in this day and age.

No even rounds? Correct me if I'm wrong, but didnt the judges in this fight score a few rounds even?

I know I had one round 9-9 and another 10-10. It was hard to give some rounds to either of them when Toney only controlled the first half of the round and then let Peter take the other half.