Why doesn't anyone in boxing play the heel?

[YoungManRumble]

The "heel" only works if you have an opposite. Duran had SRL. Floyd had Manny. Tyson had Holyfield.

Ali was completely different. He wasn't playing the heel, he converted to Islam and refused to go to Vietnam, which made people hate him.

Rexy is right. You need charisma. You also need talent and confidence.

Ali literally stole his heel act from Gorgeous George...

[R-Hand Southpaw]

Ali did it, with great success professionally and financially.

Same for Floyd. Same for Conor in MMA. Covington doing it as well, though not on the level of those 3 financially.

The heel role sells. Why doesn't anyone in boxing realize that, and capitalize on it?

Broner was trying to do it, he just wasn't quite good enough to pull it off. That and Maidana, as he proved vs Floyd, was not exactly an easy matchup.

Who could/should start being the heel?

The biggest difference between the guys you listed vs the other guys is that they are clear A sides with legit talent and skills.

Take AB for example. Dude plays the heel but doesn't have the talent or skills to win. The other guys? Too afraid to take legit risks and put their zero on the line.

Someone who is a "B side" fighter will never get the A side treatment such as favorable score cards or ability to dictate weight, gloves, location etc which is why you rarely see guys doing it.

To be a heel you have to have major balls because stepping away from any beef would make you weak.

Closest guy now would be Teofimo Lopez as he's young and brash. He also has the backing of Top Rank and is their preferred future star.

One other guy who could do this too is Canelo, but he doesn't speak a lick of English but we all know Canelo gets those A side perks.

[The Big Dunn]

Ali literally stole his heel act from Gorgeous George...

Ok, fair point. But the hate people had for him wasn't just "heat", it was real and palpable.

[PRINCEKOOL]

David Haye done it soon as he became heavyweight Champion.

[Marchegiano]

Here's an interesting little tidbit of historical context.

Heels were invented in the 1780s by Daniel Mendoza. He also invented ticketing for seating at a sporting event, using the media to promote his fights, acting in a manner he knew his audience hated, and most of all being a race that is hated.

I think it's interesting because usually something like that is sport-wide not something that transcends all of sports. Now everyone in sports uses the media to promote their events, now everyone in sports sells tickets to seats, and now everyone in sports has heels. The current Yokozuna is kinda a heel. In sumo, smiling after winning is serious showboating and many folk frown on it funny ol' world. That is the glory and influence of Mendoza.

Mendoza borrowed defense from fencing to counter-act boxing's already instilled offense being very much from broadsword techniques.

He then took his mouth to the Times in the 1780s and wrote editorials that basically said Christians are soft, ***s are hard, I'm gonna **** up Christians because God likes me more in ye olden almost respectful kinda put-downs. 1780s.....the ****ing inquisition is still around. It's not just hateful, already, in Europe, for the most part being ***ish is illegal which is why Daniel was in London in the first place. One of the few places in Europe with no laws making being ***ish illegal outright. In this climate our Mendoza starts talking his ****, to the masses, in.

So of course the public needs to see this mouthy *** get smashed. He gets his first high profile HW fight against the man the public claims is best in all of England. Mendoza give him that stick-n-move. Counters, defensive posturing, defensive stances and guards, footwork used to hit and not be hit back, Danny boy danced the big Anglo HW to sleep.

Greedy, conniving, cowardly, and most of all ***, is what they called him. This is when the story really kicks up. Mendoza, rather than trying to calm his audience or preach his side as if there was value in it or any of that, just gives it to the Christians twice as hard. Now they're really pissed and want blood. Mendoza gives no ****s, gives it to them hard and makes a crazy amount of cash on the ticket sales. He gets in the ring and does his defense, gets the jeers and the W and calls it a night.

Now ****'s hit the fan and our Mendoza still isn't giving a ****. Christians are not just weak, and not just not favored by God, now Christians are ******. Mendoza adds science to his terms used to give the screws to the audience. Newton and such never gave a ****, it was Mendoza who coined the "science of boxing".

Arrogant, greedy, conspiring, cowardly, little *** boy what's only half the size of a proper HW champion. Mendoza had to be stopped, but not before the champion had made such a ruckus he'd get invited to a hunting party with the king. George, the one we fought in the revolution.

Mendoza, not knowing the rules to hunt, being raised a poor *** in 1700s Europe, rode off with the dogs. The rest of the party gave chase to explain to Mendoza his mistake. One of them told Mendoza if he should continue this practice he'd be whipped from his horse. Mendoza, cold as ice, responds, try it and I'll knock you off yours and into the dirt. He was informed he was speaking to the King. Name me another heel what talked **** directly to a monarch while being mere feet away. That's OG as ****.

Now, the Christians and nobles were seriously pissed. They conspire against Mendoza, put up a lord against him and when the nobleman cheats they refuse to call any fouls on him. Mendoza loses his title by being held by his ponytail so he can't slip and move and getting his face drilled like a jackhammer until he's slumped.

Don't worry though, we're talking about the master heel and the money making genius that is Mendoza.

Mendoza just takes his L and retires, no big deal, he's old now anyway. John Jackson, the noble, also retires and the belt is vacamt. Mendoza opens a gym, trains people under what he called Mendoza School and this next bit I'm gonna do without so much context because my story has gone long. Jackson starts the pugilist society, our first code of ethics and such in boxing, and makes his own **** even more illegal.

Mendoza's training lineage is literally the who's-who of boxing heel history. The next terror in the ring would be called the Black Terror. A black man trained by Mendoza who makes the counterpunch so popular he's often credited for it being brought to boxing rather than his trainer, Mendoza. After him a series of black pugs would follow all being trained under Mendoza school. Molyneaux is the next major heel, he heels it up properly too but more importantly makes so much money as a black man he'd inspire the next generation. Hewlett-Molyneaux is not a heel but is in the training lineage, this is the man who brought sparring and gloves to regular training. Hewlett's training takes over in the black boxing circles and before you know it guys Corbett and Choyinski are borrowing from black boxing and reteaching it to young black pugs...well Choy did teach Johnson, Corbett were a racist who just used black boxing gym ideas but you get my point, ****'s gone full circle.

Today we've got **** like the Mayweather gym and Kronk and such. All fall under the Mendoza banner. He was the heel, his students were the heels of their eras, his student's students carried on his system and even now we have defense wizards who talk **** in the media at us directly while raking in record sales and at least claiming the industry has a racial bias against them.


****ing Daniel The *** Mendoza man. Baddest heel what ever talked that mad ****. Mayweather and even Ali are just cheap imitations of the original. Mendoza revolutionized boxing and sports in general. That's why we call him The ***. It's his badge of honor. He out ***'d time. My dude....****ing legendary.

[GhostofDempsey]

A lot of them aren't playing though, they really are shytheals. Floyd, Broner, Gervonta, McGregor, etc. They were just being themselves.

The ones who played it up for the media were guys like Mayorga, Edison Miranda, Fury.

[Boxing-1013]

The "heel" only works if you have an opposite. Duran had SRL. Floyd had Manny. Tyson had Holyfield.

Ali was completely different. He wasn't playing the heel, he converted to Islam and refused to go to Vietnam, which made people hate him.

Rexy is right. You need charisma. You also need talent and confidence.

Ali is known to have modeled his persona after Gorgeous George, one of the ultimate heels. To say he wasn't a 'heel', I mean come on dude. He was just able to pull it off so well because he had a ton of personality. That's where the other stuff you mentioned comes into play - he was no shy wallflower; if he felt a certain way about something, then you would know about it.

[Boxing-1013]

Shakur Stevenson should adopt it like I said before.

He's already much more unlikeable than both Errol and Bud, to me anyway. Seems to help to be able to dance well to be the heel also. He can taunt guys while they miss and people will want to see his weird little gopher face get punched in, but most guys probably won't be able to.

Yeah you have a good point about him. Even about the weird little gopher face, really.

You gotta have some wits, intelligence, and charisma to be a villain and guys like Crawford and Spence dont got it like that.

Lmmfao at wanting Spence to be a villain. He is a mute and a country bumpkin with zero personality so how the hell is he gonna be a heel?

Broner is too dumb to be an interesting villain. He is more fit to be that r3tardef sidekick , the scrub who sits passenger to the real villain.

Davis is a mumbling idiot dude nobody can take him seriously as a heel especially when he is shorter than most women.

Tyson Fury is totally capable of being the bad guy if he wanted to but he is stuck somewhere in between.

You're right in a lot of ways. I guess the gift of gab isn't so easily acquired after all. You do need to have some quick wit and quick talking to pull it off.

I think some of these guys could do it fairly well if they tried. They just seem too lazy if anything. Spence for example, he is a bumpkin. But he could talk about stuff that pisses people off when he talks, if he wanted to play it up.

Could talk about his drunk driving stuff all the time for example. Make it a bit like Froch and his 80k at Wembley.

Teo Lopez is kinda doing it.

I like him, but then again, I usually like the heels, so maybe you're right.

...Wilder?

I agree, he is trying.

Wilder was a decent heel but after being defeated he's kind of lost that aura. Ignoring all the other obvious insanity.

Teofimo doing a pretty good job too I guess since I lost money betting against him twice lol

Yeah, good points.

[Boxing-1013]

Huh? If you want a heel that puts on a show for you to be entertained, go watch the wwe then you casuals.

Stop watching wrestling.

OP is asking hom0sexual desires. Probably a Lance Lugmire intern at the Loeffler office.


There is no playing the heel in boxing. That’s literally fictional role playing. Most elite professional boxers and whom are stars been boxing since before their teens, so they dedicated their whole life to it. It’s SERIOUS business and you can’t expect others to act the fool as if it were some theatre show like American continent commercial wrestling.

The last GENUINE guys whom played the part were Jorge Páez and perhaps Mayorga. I want to say Camacho to JCC or towards DLH. That all debatable because if you’re a true Champion esque then your reserve the right to speak your mind. Some might call it ego, but that’s the tradition. Some prefer to stay humbled and just be a fighter without acting the fool. For example the Spartan approach you could be a mean badass but don’t have to act the fool. Ali truly believed he was better than Liston and proved his way through the Olympics. Some even considered him a non-patriot but then again what the point of the Vietnam War? Ali imo was a protagonist.

Fury atm believes in his skills and is a softer version of Ali.

Floyd was a loud mouth, but he was a bonafide Champion before he fought Oscar. Ali was considered the People’s Champ. An antagonist can’t be the People’s Champ.

Now selling yourself to act the fool can be seen in various combat sports for unknown fighters trying to make a buck but these acts were reserved to showbiz foolery like commercial wrestling, FICTIONAL role playing which isn’t genuine character

I named quite a few who played the heel, in boxing and MMA. You can also play the heel, in other mediums as well.

If you guys think that 'playing the heel' only takes place in pro wrestling, then lol

[whollisboxing]

Ali did it, with great success professionally and financially.

Same for Floyd. Same for Conor in MMA. Covington doing it as well, though not on the level of those 3 financially.

The heel role sells. Why doesn't anyone in boxing realize that, and capitalize on it?

Broner was trying to do it, he just wasn't quite good enough to pull it off. That and Maidana, as he proved vs Floyd, was not exactly an easy matchup.

Who could/should start being the heel?

I think Teofimo Lopez is on his way to becoming a good "heel" as you describe it. People wanted to see him humbled against Loma but he pulled off the victory. Now Teo seems to be up on a high horse with his money demands but then again he's been able to back up his words so I think he's the guy right now.

Plenty of people wanna see him lose and he seems to welcome that.