Comments Thread For: Chavez: Canelo is Pound-For-Pound Best, But Crawford More Complete

[Silver Spear]

well we're gonna have to agree to disagree. While Canelo move forward more, he didn't back ggg imo. Ggg wasn't moving backwards nor did he ever end up on the ropes. He circled Canelo, there's a difference. He outworked Canelo, but canelo kept the fight close enough for the judges to give him the benefit of the doubt as they always do. I mean, the fight was on the table on the official scorecards going into the 12th round and somehow, 2 judges gave that round to Canelo which is a round most had him clearly losing. So just as I stated in my original post, I thought he lost both fights to ggg, and the overwhelming majority of people who scored the fight live, felt the same way, even while surrounded by a pro Canelo crowd who cheered his every move.

Go watch the fight again. Rd 1 they are circling in the center of the ring almost the entire fight. But already in Rd 2 we see Canelo backing up Ggg. Ggg was falling for feints, Canelo's body shots was affecting Ggg so he was starting to land his hook and Ggg was not liking that. Rd 3 Ggg had Canelo back a bit almost on the ropes and it took just one Right from Canelo to make Ggg back up and return to the center of the ring. Instead of pressuring Canelo on the ropes Ggg instead chose to back up. Why? Because of how effective Canelo was at avoiding Ggg's punches while up against the ropes during their first fight. This round you start to see a Ggg that is hesitant to throw a punch in fear of a counter. Ggg does circle away and tries to avoid all the power shots as he should, but from here on out we see a Ggg that is clearly moving back and away from Canelo instead of standing his ground or running through the punches like he has in the past with every other opponent.

I could keep going but if you still prefer to "agree to disagree" then so be it. Jabs do not win fights when your opponent is landing the more meaningful power shots.

[Jab jab boom]

Go watch the fight again. Rd 1 they are circling in the center of the ring almost the entire fight. But already in Rd 2 we see Canelo backing up Ggg. Ggg was falling for feints, Canelo's body shots was affecting Ggg so he was starting to land his hook and Ggg was not liking that. Rd 3 Ggg had Canelo back a bit almost on the ropes and it took just one Right from Canelo to make Ggg back up and return to the center of the ring. Instead of pressuring Canelo on the ropes Ggg instead chose to back up. Why? Because of how effective Canelo was at avoiding Ggg's punches while up against the ropes during their first fight. This round you start to see a Ggg that is hesitant to throw a punch in fear of a counter. Ggg does circle away and tries to avoid all the power shots as he should, but from here on out we see a Ggg that is clearly moving back and away from Canelo instead of standing his ground or running through the punches like he has in the past with every other opponent.

I could keep going but if you still prefer to "agree to disagree" then so be it. Jabs do not win fights when your opponent is landing the more meaningful power shots.

I've seen the fight several times, nothing is changing my mind. You can act as if jabs don't matter but they certainly do and this premise that ggg only threw jabs is funny because he also happened to land over 100 power punches as well. DCanelo got favorable treatment from judges, and everyone knows it.

[Silver Spear]

I've seen the fight several times, nothing is changing my mind. You can act as if jabs don't matter but they certainly do and this premise that ggg only threw jabs is funny because he also happened to land over 100 power punches as well. DCanelo got favorable treatment from judges, and everyone knows it.

Who's face looked worse? Punch stats mean little because even though a power punch may look to land it could have been parried. Since you do not want to actually break down the fight and prove to me that I am wrong I will assume you would prefer to "disagree" to avoid looking foolish. Obviously Ggg threw more than just jabs but his power was not scaring Canelo like Canelo was scaring Ggg. There were a handful of shots that Ggg landed that were meaningful while Canelo had a handful each and every round.

[Jab jab boom]

Who's face looked worse? Punch stats mean little because even though a power punch may look to land it could have been parried. Since you do not want to actually break down the fight and prove to me that I am wrong I will assume you would prefer to "disagree" to avoid looking foolish. Obviously Ggg threw more than just jabs but his power was not scaring Canelo like Canelo was scaring Ggg. There were a handful of shots that Ggg landed that were meaningful while Canelo had a handful each and every round.

the fact that you're going by facial bruising to make your argument just shows me how ridiculous your arguments are. Not to mention your belief that ggg was scared, yet he threw and landed more punches than Canelo. That makes no sense. Whether ggg was fighting canelo or not, he was always an active jabber and threw more jabs than almost every other active fighter other than chocolatito. Do you even follow boxing outside of Canelo? Over the 2 fights Canelo only outlanded ggg in 5 of the 24 rounds yet still came away with a draw and a win. In the rematch, it's not like Canelo was ripping away all night with violent power shots and dominating as you try to make it seem. He fought in spurts as he usually tends to do, he was outworked for the majority of almost every round, which is exactly why most who scored the fight live didn't have him winning. Canelo is conservative with his punch out put and got outworked and outlanded. There's no 2 ways about it.

[Silver Spear]

the fact that you're going by facial bruising to make your argument just shows me how ridiculous your arguments are. Not to mention your belief that ggg was scared, yet he threw and landed more punches than Canelo. That makes no sense. Whether ggg was fighting canelo or not, he was always an active jabber and threw more jabs than almost every other active fighter other than chocolatito. Do you even follow boxing outside of Canelo? Over the 2 fights Canelo only outlanded ggg in 5 of the 24 rounds yet still came away with a draw and a win. In the rematch, it's not like Canelo was ripping away all night with violent power shots and dominating as you try to make it seem. He fought in spurts as he usually tends to do, he was outworked for the majority of almost every round, which is exactly why most who scored the fight live didn't have him winning. Canelo is conservative with his punch out put and got outworked and outlanded. There's no 2 ways about it.

You made a comment about jabs and how much value they have. I simply asked a question based on your statement. Canelo's power shots > Ggg jabs.

That was my point. Sure Ggg may have landed more but to say that him out punching Canelo means he won the fight is discrediting the effectiveness of power punches. I agree that Canelo has a limited output and is very conservative with his punches. I have always criticized his stamina.

Canelo's punches were affecting Ggg's far more than Ggg's were affecting Canelo's. I would take 1 solid landing power shot over 2 jabs any day. Body language says it all. Ggg was fearing Canelo's punches more that night.

[AKAcronym]

Who's face looked worse? Punch stats mean little because even though a power punch may look to land it could have been parried. Since you do not want to actually break down the fight and prove to me that I am wrong I will assume you would prefer to "disagree" to avoid looking foolish. Obviously Ggg threw more than just jabs but his power was not scaring Canelo like Canelo was scaring Ggg. There were a handful of shots that Ggg landed that were meaningful while Canelo had a handful each and every round.

You do know that there were two elbows and a headbutt landed by Canelo right? Not saying they were intentional or that Canelo didn't land his fair share of punches but going by facial damage is a ****** way to judge fights. Golovkin had bad bruising after the fight against Rosado and Monroe, does that mean that the fights were close before the stoppages? No. Some guys just bruise easier and Gennadiy seems like he's one of those guys. And I don't know how you judge what being "scared" is.

[Jab jab boom]

You made a comment about jabs and how much value they have. I simply asked a question based on your statement. Canelo's power shots > Ggg jabs.

That was my point. Sure Ggg may have landed more but to say that him out punching Canelo means he won the fight is discrediting the effectiveness of power punches. I agree that Canelo has a limited output and is very conservative with his punches. I have always criticized his stamina.

Canelo's punches were affecting Ggg's far more than Ggg's were affecting Canelo's. I would take 1 solid landing power shot over 2 jabs any day. Body language says it all. Ggg was fearing Canelo's punches more that night.

saying canelos power shots > than ggg jabs ignores the over 100 power shots ggg landed. It ignores that ggg was the busier fighter who also closed the fight stronger. It also ignores that all of these power shots you're raving over can also be glancing right hands, grazing hooks, doesn't necessarily mean they landed with actual power. I will say Canelo did land the more eye catching shots, but not nearly enough to overcome the consistency with which he was being outworked all night.

[Silver Spear]

You do know that there were two elbows and a headbutt landed by Canelo right? Not saying they were intentional or that Canelo didn't land his fair share of punches but going by facial damage is a ****** way to judge fights. Golovkin had bad bruising after the fight against Rosado and Monroe, does that mean that the fights were close before the stoppages? No. Some guys just bruise easier and Gennadiy seems like he's one of those guys. And I don't know how you judge what being "scared" is.

Are you accusing me of going by facial damage to judge a fight? How do you judge momentum? How do you judge ring control? How do you judge defense? Body language says a lot to those who are trained and know how to read it.

I never judged the fight based on facial damage. That would imply that I waited until the end of the fight to make my conclusion instead of having an opinion during the fight. If you follow our conversation you will see I was replying to a statement he had made. He made it seem like Ggg's jabs were more important than Canelo's power punches.

[Silver Spear]

saying canelos power shots > than ggg jabs ignores the over 100 power shots ggg landed. It ignores that ggg was the busier fighter who also closed the fight stronger. It also ignores that all of these power shots you're raving over can also be glancing right hands, grazing hooks, doesn't necessarily mean they landed with actual power. I will say Canelo did land the more eye catching shots, but not nearly enough to overcome the consistency with which he was being outworked all night.

Again with the 100 power shots argument. I could care less what punch stats looked like after the fight. Ggg's power shots were not landing with the same effectiveness like Canelo's were. Ggg's power shots were not pushing back Canelo all night like Canelo's were to Ggg. All Canelo had to do was feint or shift is upper body forward and Ggg was jumping backwards or turtling up. It was clear to see that Canelo was hitting Ggg a lot harder and a lot cleaner in the 2nd fight and Ggg noticed it too. When have you ever seen Ggg react to a feint like he did against Canelo?

Being outworked by softer punches does not mean you lost the fight. Canelo had the more meaningful shots. Canelo landed the punches that affected the fight more than what GGG did. I am not saying Ggg did a bad job or sucks. He did great and I loved the way he fought the last 3 rounds. If he had fought like that the entire time he would have been the winner no doubt. His body language was telling. Him gasping for air early on, him reacting to nothing showed he was doing anything and everything to avoid getting punched by Canelo. Ggg usually runs through punches but against Canelo suddenly the unstoppable force stopped and realized the immovable object would win.

[Jab jab boom]

Again with the 100 power shots argument. I could care less what punch stats looked like after the fight. Ggg's power shots were not landing with the same effectiveness like Canelo's were. Ggg's power shots were not pushing back Canelo all night like Canelo's were to Ggg. All Canelo had to do was feint or shift is upper body forward and Ggg was jumping backwards or turtling up. It was clear to see that Canelo was hitting Ggg a lot harder and a lot cleaner in the 2nd fight and Ggg noticed it too. When have you ever seen Ggg react to a feint like he did against Canelo?

Being outworked by softer punches does not mean you lost the fight. Canelo had the more meaningful shots. Canelo landed the punches that affected the fight more than what GGG did. I am not saying Ggg did a bad job or sucks. He did great and I loved the way he fought the last 3 rounds. If he had fought like that the entire time he would have been the winner no doubt. His body language was telling. Him gasping for air early on, him reacting to nothing showed he was doing anything and everything to avoid getting punched by Canelo. Ggg usually runs through punches but against Canelo suddenly the unstoppable force stopped and realized the immovable object would win.

your arguments for Canelo winning have went from facial bruising, to body language while dismissing actual punches landed. Lol. OK. At 36 yrs old, ggg was the busier, more active fighter who landed more punches while Canelo fought in sports trying to steal rounds. If that works for you, then fine, but for nearly everyone live at the fight, they didn't think it was enough to give the judges favorite son the win, and understandably so.