Comments Thread For: Chavez: Canelo is Pound-For-Pound Best, But Crawford More Complete

[LA_2_Vegas]

I think Canelo is "better" right now as well given the opposition (and still improving his craft imo)

but Crawford is ambidextrous - that alone provides a whole other dimension to his game that Canelo does not bring in his style. It provides different options as to how he wants to approach a given fight - and can change on the fly. And he is bringing a good jab that is effective from either stance, which is quite rare. There are only a couple of guys in the whole sport who can are that ambidextrous with two jabs (Fury, TC, also perhaps Navarette)(names some others if you can think of any).

If these two matched up - even though Canelo would be the obvious favorite , I think we'd all still sit here wondering how Crawford would approach the fight. We know the looks Canelo can give out of his style. There is never a fight where I've seen people say - oh I bet Canelo gets on his toes in this one and makes it a masterpiece...he doesn't have that to his game - it doesn't matter what level of opponent, he independently doesn't have that. I think Crawford has more options.

[Jab jab boom]

How many loses does Manny have on his record? Manny has also been accused of PED use although he has never been officially caught or tested positive. Having a loss on your record does not automatically disqualify you from the list. Unless you are HBO.

I agree to a point about the size advantage etc and it is a trend I see happening with a lot of younger boxers. A lot of fighters tend to drain in their earlier years because they can when they are young and use it to their advantage. Personally I dislike that but it is legal and if it helps you win then so be it.

Valid point but Manny's losses were spread out and he went yrs without losing. Had canelo lost those 2 fights vs ggg back to back that most scoring ringside had him losing, he'd be 3-2 in his last 5. Not likely he'd be mentioned in the top 5 p4p if that were the case.

[Silver Spear]

Valid point but Manny's losses were spread out and he went yrs without losing. Had canelo lost those 2 fights vs ggg back to back that most scoring ringside had him losing, he'd be 3-2 in his last 5. Not likely he'd be mentioned in the top 5 p4p if that were the case.

True. But Manny did have some loses piled up fairly close too. Mayweather, Marquez, Bradley, Horn were all within a few years and fights of each other. I agree about Canelo though if he had officially lost those fights he would not be rated P4P 1, maybe top 10 but not 1. You could make an easier argument about Ggg winning the first fight than you will ever make with the second. Almost all current and former fighters had Canelo winning the second fight.

One could argue that Manny could and/or should have more losses on his record against Marquez.

[Jab jab boom]

True. But Manny did have some loses piled up fairly close too. Mayweather, Marquez, Bradley, Horn were all within a few years and fights of each other. I agree about Canelo though if he had officially lost those fights he would not be rated P4P 1, maybe top 10 but not 1. You could make an easier argument about Ggg winning the first fight than you will ever make with the second. Almost all current and former fighters had Canelo winning the second fight.

One could argue that Manny could and/or should have more losses on his record against Marquez.

pac did fall off most lists for a while. Beating Thurman got him back on some lists after being off for a while. And yes, pac arguably deserved to lose to Marquez every time they fought. With Canelo, I think he definitely lost the first fight. Second fight he fought better but I think a draw should've been best case scenario. Of the 50 press row scorecards for the match, only 2 had canelo winning. The rest had ggg or a draw. You are right, many boxers thought Canelo won, but certain guys like jacobs, lennox Lewis, Paulie Malignaggi and teddy atlas had ggg winning. Bwishbthey could've had a 3rd fight in a reasonable time frame to settle it, but at this point, I think ggg is too old to beat someone with that much of an age advantage.

[Silver Spear]

pac did fall off most lists for a while. Beating Thurman got him back on some lists after being off for a while. And yes, pac arguably deserved to lose to Marquez every time they fought. With Canelo, I think he definitely lost the first fight. Second fight he fought better but I think a draw should've been best case scenario. Of the 50 press row scorecards for the match, only 2 had canelo winning. The rest had ggg or a draw. You are right, many boxers thought Canelo won, but certain guys like jacobs, lennox Lewis, Paulie Malignaggi and teddy atlas had ggg winning. Bwishbthey could've had a 3rd fight in a reasonable time frame to settle it, but at this point, I think ggg is too old to beat someone with that much of an age advantage.

Press row hardly has any leg to stand on when it comes to who they think won or lost a fight. They get fights wrong just like judges. The fact that most fighters again current and past had Canelo winning says a lot. I could care less what current fighters who are announcers think won since they may be influenced by whatever network is paying them.

Personally I think Canelo beat Ggg. My reasoning is when Canelo looked good he was dominating and superior. Ggg had smaller times and moments where he looked good. Power shots >jabs all day. Yes I know Ggg has a really strong Jab. I read fighters body language and in that fight Ggg lost. He had a good comeback in the last rounds but Canelo was still the better fighter that night.

[Metacom]

GGG shouldn't be rated that high? He beat the guy that's being argued as PFP best.

[Jab jab boom]

Press row hardly has any leg to stand on when it comes to who they think won or lost a fight. They get fights wrong just like judges. The fact that most fighters again current and past had Canelo winning says a lot. I could care less what current fighters who are announcers think won since they may be influenced by whatever network is paying them.

Personally I think Canelo beat Ggg. My reasoning is when Canelo looked good he was dominating and superior. Ggg had smaller times and moments where he looked good. Power shots >jabs all day. Yes I know Ggg has a really strong Jab. I read fighters body language and in that fight Ggg lost. He had a good comeback in the last rounds but Canelo was still the better fighter that night.

I didn't see Canelo dominate at any point and he was never able to separate himself from ggg. The fact that ggg closed stronger than Canelo in the championship rounds despite being 36 to canelos 28 says a lot. At the end of the day, the overwhelming majority of people who scored the fight live at the fight didn't have Canelo winning. What really mattered was the judges scorecards but I give them less of a leg to stand on because it's known that they always favor Canelo and never have given him a bad scorecard his entire career. Him being the A side has plenty to do with it. As far as the boxers/trainers I mentioned, none of them worked for hbo and both Canelo and ggg were hbo fighters at the time. They have no reason to favor one over the other for network reasons. I also don't put much into power punch numbers stats compared to jabs because a power punch can be anything other than a jab. Doesn't necessarily mean they all landed with power. Ggg had canelo more visibly hurt in the 10th round of the rematch than Canelo had ggg hurt at any time.

[Silver Spear]

I didn't see Canelo dominate at any point and he was never able to separate himself from ggg. The fact that ggg closed stronger than Canelo in the championship rounds despite being 36 to canelos 28 says a lot. At the end of the day, the overwhelming majority of people who scored the fight live at the fight didn't have Canelo winning. What really mattered was the judges scorecards but I give them less of a leg to stand on because it's known that they always favor Canelo and never have given him a bad scorecard his entire career. Him being the A side has plenty to do with it. As far as the boxers/trainers I mentioned, none of them worked for hbo and both Canelo and ggg were hbo fighters at the time. They have no reason to favor one over the other for network reasons. I also don't put much into power punch numbers stats compared to jabs because a power punch can be anything other than a jab. Doesn't necessarily mean they all landed with power. Ggg had canelo more visibly hurt in the 10th round of the rematch than Canelo had ggg hurt at any time.

Ggg absolutely did not walk down Canelo in the rematch. Canelo was backing up Ggg almost the entire fight. This was something that no one has ever done to Ggg, not even the oversized Jacobs. Ggg has an iron chin and tremendous stamina. Yes he showed in the last rounds that great heart of a champion and I give him all the credit in the world for that. The fact still remains though that Canelo's punches were obviously getting to Ggg. Look how hard Ggg was breathing early on. Something he has never done either in his past fights. Canelo's power may not have been enough to knock out Ggg but it was enough to keep Ggg from coming forward. I was not looking at actual punch stats. I watched the fight and re-watched it numerous times. Canelo landed the more meaningful punches. Yes Ggg had a good shot in the 10th but most of his punches were jabs where Canelo was landing power shots in combinations.

[Jab jab boom]

Ggg absolutely did not walk down Canelo in the rematch. Canelo was backing up Ggg almost the entire fight. This was something that no one has ever done to Ggg, not even the oversized Jacobs. Ggg has an iron chin and tremendous stamina. Yes he showed in the last rounds that great heart of a champion and I give him all the credit in the world for that. The fact still remains though that Canelo's punches were obviously getting to Ggg. Look how hard Ggg was breathing early on. Something he has never done either in his past fights. Canelo's power may not have been enough to knock out Ggg but it was enough to keep Ggg from coming forward. I was not looking at actual punch stats. I watched the fight and re-watched it numerous times. Canelo landed the more meaningful punches. Yes Ggg had a good shot in the 10th but most of his punches were jabs where Canelo was landing power shots in combinations.

well we're gonna have to agree to disagree. While Canelo move forward more, he didn't back ggg imo. Ggg wasn't moving backwards nor did he ever end up on the ropes. He circled Canelo, there's a difference. He outworked Canelo, but canelo kept the fight close enough for the judges to give him the benefit of the doubt as they always do. I mean, the fight was on the table on the official scorecards going into the 12th round and somehow, 2 judges gave that round to Canelo which is a round most had him clearly losing. So just as I stated in my original post, I thought he lost both fights to ggg, and the overwhelming majority of people who scored the fight live, felt the same way, even while surrounded by a pro Canelo crowd who cheered his every move.

[_original_]

Canelo has a stacked resume (only 1 official loss) while Bud has a bum filled resume with a few okayish wins.



It's easy for Crawford to look impressive given the fighters he's in with. Canelo would look like a prime Mike Tyson if he was fighting Bud's opponents.