Is Canelo the most avoided Middleweight in history

[JohnCastellanos]

Just said him in the Tua thread, but, ya know, I reckon Sam Langford.

Joe Butler, King of The Middleweights, also very much avoided.

Thing about the colored champions is they fought one another a ton, but, were avoided like the plague by the lineal champions. I don't think the modern era has seen avoidance like the colorline era. That **** was systemic and ****.

The best of them, ever, five time colored HW, colored MW, and NSC HW champion Sam Langford was the most feared MW of all time. He brought little money and a had a huge chance of kicking your ass.

I wanted this to be a troll thread but I can’t get no where with Citizen KOBA and you Marchegiano coming thru with the wisdom like that. Feels like an intervention

[R.KHLMS4LIFE]

As much as i likr canelo boxing skills and abity yo be a diverse fight cherry picking An aged. Faded Kovolav a no name in rocky fielding the extra cherry picked cotto fight. The gifted decisions vs ggg and lara either canelo is blessed lucky got connections amongst promotions presidents and judges or a mixture of all the above

[daggum]

hes the most avoided fighter from 160 to 175 also throw in all the guys from 154 who are scared to move up becaue of canelo and all the cruiserweights who are too scared to move down because of canelo. basically half of boxing is in fear

[strykr619]

I like Canelo but he’s the most protected boxing in recent times not named Wilder. And he has at least two questionable wins on his resume.

There are at least 4/5 very good names he can fight at middleweight but he stays cherry picking fights he can win.

Because the middleweight divison will pretty much consume his prime quickly, its the nature of the game so he is gonna pick and chose now that he is at the top.

Problem for him is legacy... He needs to win DECISIVELY against GGG or he is gonna suffer legacy wise with a massive * to it (only Canelo stans are blind to this).

The gift draw coupled with the PED scandal leading up to the rematch throws a massive wrench into his boxing story. Like it or not you need to have that third fight. A decisive win MAY (because detractors will say in the end he aged out Gennady) so in the end maybe it really is a lose/lose for Canelo.

[Ritz Kola]

Just said him in the Tua thread, but, ya know, I reckon Sam Langford.

Joe Butler, King of The Middleweights, also very much avoided.

Thing about the colored champions is they fought one another a ton, but, were avoided like the plague by the lineal champions. I don't think the modern era has seen avoidance like the colorline era. That **** was systemic and ****.

The best of them, ever, five time colored HW, colored MW, and NSC HW champion Sam Langford was the most feared MW of all time. He brought little money and a had a huge chance of kicking your ass.

Why colored though? Why not just say "Black" or "Afro-American"? Preferably "AA" if you wanted to avoid using Black- which isn't a bad thing to want to avoid.

[Marchegiano]

Why colored though? Why not just say "Black" or "Afro-American"? Preferably "AA" if you wanted to avoid using Black- which isn't a bad thing to want to avoid.

I meant no offense.

To be historically accurate because there were multiple titles by different names that reflect African in different terms.

For example the Black HW champion was a man named John Klon***e Haynes.

There were "nergro" and others best not mentioned really, champions

The Colored HW champion isn't a term I selected to reflect the African-American champion during the colorline. It's the title on the most respected black man called champion during the colorline.

The 'colored' was the idea on Richard K Fox, the owner of the Police Gazette, basically Ring before Ring. Like the Ring title today it was not seen as equal to the lineal, but, out of the colored, black, negro, etc, the mountains, black dynamites they were called in the day, were all the 'colored' champions.

Klon***e was a good HW, Langford was much better, so you see and read colored more often than black when we talk about dark skinned colorline champions.

When we talk about them we use the name of the title they held to be clear which version of dark(?) titles they held.


However, Peter Jackson is not American...Afro-Descendant may be the more correct term? The first Colored champions were Canadians and Australians before the US fighters took over...it was a world title.

I apologize, I tried to explain while dancing around racist terms but the history is racist bud so it's a bit difficult to not use the terms associated while explaining the title's actually named that.

[Ritz Kola]

I meant no offense.

To be historically accurate because there were multiple titles by different names that reflect African in different terms.

For example the Black HW champion was a man named John Klon***e Haynes.

There were "nergro" and others best not mentioned really, champions

The Colored HW champion isn't a term I selected to reflect the African-American champion during the colorline. It's the title on the most respected black man called champion during the colorline.

The 'colored' was the idea on Richard K Fox, the owner of the Police Gazette, basically Ring before Ring. Like the Ring title today it was not seen as equal to the lineal, but, out of the colored, black, negro, etc, the mountains, black dynamites they were called in the day, were all the 'colored' champions.

Klon***e was a good HW, Langford was much better, so you see and read colored more often than black when we talk about dark skinned colorline champions.

When we talk about them we use the name of the title they held to be clear which version of dark(?) titles they held.


However, Peter Jackson is not American...Afro-Descendant may be the more correct term? The first Colored champions were Canadians and Australians before the US fighters took over...it was a world title.

I apologize, I tried to explain while dancing around racist terms but the history is racist bud so it's a bit difficult to not use the terms associated while explaining the title's actually named that.

Oh no no no no no apologies needed friend. I wasn't upset or mad I was honestly just asking. I'm Afro-American so I know the history behind my people finally settling on a term to be referred to in general: AA. I didn't know some of the things you just shared with me though, so thanks for the knowledge. I was just asking, but you answered it in great detail. It makes sense why you did. Peter Jackson wasn't Afro-American so you're right, the term as used back then would've been "coloured." And it would fit more.
On a side, yet still related note, whenever I'm referring to people of similar hue and origin regardless of country line- I just say "the diaspora." It's commonly understood in AA culture that term reflects our people globally. You're not doing anything wrong I was just throwing an option out.

[KillaMane26]

Wow..... These two guys leading the GGG/Canelo rivalry have been pulling out blatant bS str8 from the center of the crack of their asses to spite each other.


Its hilarious and pathetic...... Pass the popcorn

[BangEM]

Because the middleweight divison will pretty much consume his prime quickly, its the nature of the game so he is gonna pick and chose now that he is at the top.

Problem for him is legacy... He needs to win DECISIVELY against GGG or he is gonna suffer legacy wise with a massive * to it (only Canelo stans are blind to this).

The gift draw coupled with the PED scandal leading up to the rematch throws a massive wrench into his boxing story. Like it or not you need to have that third fight. A decisive win MAY (because detractors will say in the end he aged out Gennady) so in the end maybe it really is a lose/lose for Canelo.

I think he’s trying to copy Mayweather’s model but he’s doing it with the wrong blueprint.

Mayweather was in his mid-30s and had already peaked when he started cherry picking pedestrian belt holders whilst waiting for his big payday against Pacman. Canelo just turned 30 and there are tons of decent boxers out there for him to fight. No one is saying he should fight them all back to back. But fight 2-3 at least. BJS, Andrade and Callum Smith are decent fights since they’re all on DAZN if he doesn’t want GGG. Or just fight Plant or Derev.

Posterity will judge his legacy and if he ends up getting knocked out by a bum - it’s over for him.

[Marchegiano]

Oh no no no no no apologies needed friend. I wasn't upset or mad I was honestly just asking. I'm Afro-American so I know the history behind my people finally settling on a term to be referred to in general: AA. I didn't know some of the things you just shared with me though, so thanks for the knowledge. I was just asking, but you answered it in great detail. It makes sense why you did. Peter Jackson wasn't Afro-American so you're right, the term as used back then would've been "coloured." And it would fit more.
On a side, yet still related note, whenever I'm referring to people of similar hue and origin regardless of country line- I just say "the diaspora." It's commonly understood in AA culture that term reflects our people globally. You're not doing anything wrong I was just throwing an option out.

I appreciate you bud.

You just happened to touch on something I was never comfortable with and was actually a bit personal.

I am Puerto Rican, white skin. Like a lot of PRs I have a lot of black family. Uncles, aunts, cousins, ranging from, you know, like medium tone to crystal black.

In my own family they just ****ing hate 'colored'. It's not a term they want to hear, they like black. They own black if you get that. Which is why when I refer to my own black family members I use black.

So here I am doing some boxing research finding out all these guys were left out of title contention due to the color of their skin AND(!) to this day their exclusion still reigns over that history.

What I mean is, look on International Boxing Research Organization, Cyber Boxing Zone, International Boxing Hall of Fame, Boxrec, etc, the places that keep record of history.

Look at their line of champions and notice 5x champion Langford is still, today, not seen as an equal, viable, champion....because the color of his skin excluded him then and because no one in boxing history today wants to elevate the Diaspora's champions to equal or at least worth mention on the same page as the lineals and sanctioning champions.

This won't do! This is bull****. I know in my bones Sammy, Godfrey, Thunderbolt Smith, Frank Childs, Peter Jackson, etc are champions.

Every single champion from Sullivan to Braddock should get an asterix and that asterix should point directly to the diaspora champion who was excluded from the challenge.


Okay, so I set out to make a rumble, and this is were my issue comes in. Colored seems wrong. I know my own family doesn't like that term, but, black exists as a different title and I do not want to give these ivory tower historians any reason to disregard me. Which, if you call the colored title black I promise instead of addressing your issue they will focus on the difference between the colored championship and the black championship.

So to be heard properly I used colored with the respected historians.

We still rumble today, but, there is no confusing or spinning it like they're confused. Still, every time I call Sam colored I can hear my uncle Ed asking me " What's wrong with you fool?"

I know it's a term we should kill off and let go with time, but, I don't really know how else to approach the situation and have never, not once before this, been given the chance to speak directly to terms and why I use them....I am open to suggestions.


Revisionism isn't something I am actually a fan of, but the story of boxing, I can tell you that from Sparta to now and I'm telling you the biggest shock is the modern depiction of the colorline era. It's still unfair, it's still bull****, those white guys who were scared of diaspora fighters are still elevated.