What are Floyd and Manny's best 3 wins each?

[F l i c k e r]

Floyd's best 3 wins: Corrales, De la Hoya, Canelo.

Pacquiao's best 3 wins: Morales, Barrera, Thurman.


The Thurman win tops his Marquez wins. Add that Marquez sparked him tf out. That sort of drops the significance of beating Marquez. But beating Thurman at that age is a feat.


As for Mayweather. The Castillo fights are deserving but for me Corrales (33-0 w/ 28 KOs) was the killer at the time and Floyd dismantled him. De La Hoya was a middleweight and ATG, whom he fought at 154 with a total of like 2 welterweight fights. Then Canelo because he was old as s.hit and boxed the ears off the best boxer in boxing who is an ATG already. I could possibly toss Pacquiao in there as well but I think the feat of beating Oscar is greater than Pacquiao. Floyd would honestly beat Pacquiao at any weight he has ever boxed at.

[Roadblock]

Alvarez basically entered his prime either right before or right after the Mayweather fight. Anyone pretending he was far from his best or anything is flat out wrong. It's not like he's some remarkably different fighter today.

What is not said by the sour g**** brigade is that Canelo would have beat any other WW in the world that night.

You know they haters crying in their lap when they try to bring down a master performance to a ATG fighter who is on top of world boxing right now.

[Boxing_1013]

I think you could name like two fighters in his record who have height/reach advantage like Corrales and Dela Hoya.

With Pac, he hasn't fought anyone smaller than him ever since he moved up to fight Barrera. It's amazing how he negates the height disadvantages just by bouncing intermittently and in spurts.

I think in terms of p4p all time, you could make an argument for manny since none of the ATGs were as small as manny. None of them was as small as a flyweight.

Most of the ATGs are big and have all the height, reach, length advantages.

Yeah I appreciate what both guys did...but a bit more in 'awe' of Manny considering his size was really a weight class or two lower naturally (imho) than Floyd's...and as you said, he had quite a few fights where he was clearly giving up physical advantages.

[Boxing_1013]

You didn't give Pac's

May -
Nelo
DLH
Chico

Pac -
Oooooook, Keith Hurtman, kinda
Margarito (I thoroughly enjoyed seeing Margarito get abused by shorty)
Ooooooook, Claused Cotto

Pac's best wins are suspect AF
Pac hoped May would be easy pickings years later and still lost

For Manny
It comes down to Cotto Mosley Margarito and Marquez right?

His Marquez fights were largely a mixed bag...with some feeling he lost 3 of those, and 3 being very close fights, with Manny getting badly KOed in the 4th.

Cotto looks good, but many would point out he had just probably been forever damaged a year prior in that fight with Margarito...Cotto had some successes after Manny, but also some pedestrian performances, and his successes it could be argued are a bit smoke and mirrors and not great wins.

Margarito was just KOed and maybe ruined by Mosley 2 fights before Manny...also, who knows what Margarito really was...did he only beat Cotto with those hand wraps? How much credit should be get for his KO of Maravilla 10 years prior to his fight with Manny? Just hard to say the Margarito win is exceptional imo.

Mosley was pretty clearly not at his best either...loss to Cotto, a tough close fight with Mayorga, a KO vs a past it? Margarito, UD loss to Floyd, draw with Sergio Mora, then he faced Pac...after Pac he lost a UD to Canelo...and was KOed by Anthony Mundine in 7 rounds just 2.5 years after his fight with Pac.

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[BodyBagz]

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Imho, Pac's true best were at least 15 years ago.

[Boxing_1013]

But continuing to bring up 155 makes no sense here. Canelo was NOT fighting at 155 at that time. He was making 154 and was a .5 pound under that limit the fight prior. Three years after the Floyd fight he made 154 again. But watching that fight, tell me how exactly you thought Canelo was drained or how the weight affected him. This is an unnecessary narrative. No one watching the fight thought Canelo was impacted much from the 152 pound limit. He simply got out boxed and his style played right in Floyd's hands. Canelo at his heart is a skilled counter puncher with very good boxing skills. But how exactly is he going to out box Floyd at mid range or from the outside when Floyd is quicker, has better reflexes and is even more skillful? It wasn't even like Canelo fought terrible or anything, just wasn't on that level.

Canelo struggled against Floyd and Lara, two quicker boxers than him. It actually isn't all that surprising that he is doing better as he goes up the weight classes as he now has the speed/quickness advantage over every opponent.

Do you have any info on his weights for those fights? I can't find any of that. - edit looks like he was at 155 for the next 5 fights after Floyd...and 154 for Liam Smith in the 6th fight after that.

And it is relevant that at 155 Canelo looked like a better fighter than at any weight below 155...he struggled mightily to even make 155 around that same time, and I certainly don't think going down to 152 helped him at all.

And again, that's what you open yourself up to when you make catch-weights...when you are mandating it, it looks bad on you, even if you win...it just makes it look like you forced that weight for a reason.

No one is picking on Floyd for pointing that out...for one, I would say the same sh.it about anyone if they did that...Floyd maxed out his money, but it's hard to say he really took a ton of risks...he didn't have to...he could control virtually everything in the back half of his career.

On your last point...I mean most - or at least as many as those who say Lara beat him - people, myself included, saw him getting outboxed by GGG in both fights, and even Kovalev was outboxing him before that KO...never scored that one but that's what it seemed to me...and I thought Lara lost 7-5 to Canelo after pissing away the last 4 rounds as Canelo raised his level.

Saying he struggled just with Lara and Floyd is a little pie in the sky lol.

I do agree that Floyd was always probably going to be a tough matchup for Canelo...but fighting him green at 152 vs in his prime at 160 or w/e, I mean no one should give that the same credit man...let's be real...no fan-boy sh.it.

Lara and Floyd's speed and boxing likely gave Canelo trouble...but Canelo's main problem imo is his inactivity...he hardly ever dominates rounds because he isn't active enough and while he has good defense, he is still able to get hit, as anyone is.

Canelo's inactivity is still there...it would still be there if he faced Floyd or Lara now...his fame is greater now, so if those fights were close some would maybe shade those his way now, but his style is more or less the same...his power has definitely improved as well, this is true.

But again saying Canelo green at 152 is the same as prime Canelo at 160 or even higher, I mean it's silly man...that's like fighting a king in his prime, vs fighting a young prince and sticking a little knife in his back before the fight...not the same situations.

And again we see some evidence that Canelo being green very possibly hurt him in that fight...he fought the complete wrong gameplan!! I trust that now he would fight Floyd much more strongly and not try to outbox and counter Floyd.

Surely you think that Canelo now at 160 vs Floyd at that time would put up a better showing than what Canelo did that night?

[Boxing_1013]

The “Canelo was drained” excuse is alien to me also.��

As you say he still fought at 154 in 2016.

He was just outboxed by a superior fighter...

The worst is when some lie on Canelo's age saying he was 22 years old or 21 years old when he fought Floyd lol. Like really? You could think Canelo got better after the fight without lying on his actual age. There is no need for that.

If the weight didn't matter...why did Floyd make him come down to 152?

Or was that Canelo's idea now

[Boxing_1013]

He’s definitely got better and learnt from that loss but he was far from “green” as people like to say. A unified champion with 40 plus fights is anything but a “green” fighter.

Lol he was 100% green compared to what he is now...to argue against that is idiotic...but do you

[Boxing_1013]

Alvarez basically entered his prime either right before or right after the Mayweather fight. Anyone pretending he was far from his best or anything is flat out wrong. It's not like he's some remarkably different fighter today.

?

In his next fight, at 155, Canelo KOed Angulo in 10 rounds...in his last fight, at 175, Canelo KOed Kovalev in 11 rounds.

Like wut man

[Boxing_1013]

But continuing to bring up 155 makes no sense here. Canelo was NOT fighting at 155 at that time. He was making 154 and was a .5 pound under that limit the fight prior. Three years after the Floyd fight he made 154 again. But watching that fight, tell me how exactly you thought Canelo was drained or how the weight affected him. This is an unnecessary narrative. No one watching the fight thought Canelo was impacted much from the 152 pound limit. He simply got out boxed and his style played right in Floyd's hands. Canelo at his heart is a skilled counter puncher with very good boxing skills. But how exactly is he going to out box Floyd at mid range or from the outside when Floyd is quicker, has better reflexes and is even more skillful? It wasn't even like Canelo fought terrible or anything, just wasn't on that level.

Canelo struggled against Floyd and Lara, two quicker boxers than him. It actually isn't all that surprising that he is doing better as he goes up the weight classes as he now has the speed/quickness advantage over every opponent.

Btw man...with our knowledge of doping...and with Canelo's association with doping/weight cutting aides...I don't really see how saying that the last of 6 next fights being at 154, vs the other 5 being at 155, is indicative of Canelo being comfortable in the Floyd fight at 152.

His next five fights after that were 155...pretty clear at that time that he was struggling to even make 154...he had to create his own fuc.king weight class for crying out loud