Ggg v Nelo2/Lara v Nelo,lets score this fight once & 4 all

[kushking]

1st off anyone who says Canelo lost all these fights is not automatically anything, everyone is entitled to opinion & I won't begrudge anyone for their posts even if you call me everything in the book such as Canelo nuthugger etc.I will say this though anyone who daily says Canelo got gifts yet won't post scorecards will be ridiculed by me for it in future


Everyday I read internet forums I see Canelos haters saying what imho biased af such as"Canelo got gifts in Lara & ggg fights & some even say Trout got robbed too" but these are the same haters/fanbois whos cards are filled out before the fight as Canelo losing every decision, including dominated wins where IMHO he CLEARLY dominated such as Trout/Jacobs/Lara & to lesser extent Ggg2(the judges imo are so fearful of canelos haters they automatically score every fight of his very close now such as ggg2/Lara that was a CLEAR canelo win )
Post official scorecards rd by rd if possible
So anyways it's ok to disagree or think im fos,nows your time to prove once & for all your not just gggroupies/Canelo hating fangimps scorned by proving Canelos a thieving bastard using your scorecard,post your scorecards so I can lmao while explaining why I disagree w whoever thinks Canelo lost any of those 4 fights or didn't win CLEARLY in all 4. I am of course scoring the fights with same 4 criteria as pro judges score with:effective aggression,clean & hard punches,ring generalship & defense.And please turn off commentary so you're not influenced by Dougie Fischer,Lampleys bs cards


This link goes further into pro scoring for the novice who obviously never learned how to score a fight
So anyone up for the challenge put your card where your mouth is.https://coolmaterial.com/feature/how...-boxing-match/

Anyone who I consider a gggroupie/nelohater gets an automatic green k from me for having the balls to stand by your convictions in the face of my opposition. So anyone brave enough to step into the danger zone?





Extra credit Trout cards


Extra extra credit score ggg vs deryevchenko

[emceetns]

1st off anyone who says Canelo lost all these fights is not automatically anything, everyone is entitled to opinion & I won't begrudge anyone for their posts even if you call me everything in the book such as Canelo nuthugger etc.


Everyday I read internet forums I see Canelos haters saying what imho biased af such as"Canelo got gifts in Lara & ggg fights & some even say Trout got robbed too" but these are the same haters/fanbois whos cards are filled out before the fight as Canelo losing every decision, including dominated wins where IMHO he CLEARLY dominated such as Trout/Jacobs/Lara & to lesser extent Ggg2(the judges imo are so fearful of canelos haters they automatically score every fight of his very close now such as ggg2/Lara that was a CLEAR canelo win )

So anyways it's ok to disagree or think im fos,nows your time to prove once & for all your not just gggroupies/Canelo hating fangimps scorned by proving Canelos a thieving bastard using your scorecard,post your scorecards so I can lmao while discrediting whoever thinks Canelo lost any of those 4 fights or didn't win CLEARLY in all 4. I am of course scoring the fights with same 4 criteria as pro judges score with:effective aggression,clean & hard punches,ring generalship & defense.


This link goes further into pro scoring for the novice who obviously never learned how to score a fight
So anyone up for the challenge put your card where your mouth is.https://coolmaterial.com/feature/how...-boxing-match/

Anyone who I consider a gggroupie/nelohater gets an automatic green k from me for having the balls to stand by your convictions in the face of my opposition. So anyone brave enough to step into the danger zone?





Extra credit Trout cards


Extra extra credit score ggg vs deryevchenko

1. I thought Canelo edged Trout and Trout himself had no issue with the decision

2. I had Lara winning 115-113 but honestly the fight could have gone either way and Lara could have sealed the deal by stopping to trade a little more often. He was landing when he did throw but he fumbled it away a bit by over-moving.

3. I felt like Golovkin won the first fight 116-112 or 115-113 but I don't think a draw was the worst decision ever

4. The GGG rematch could have gone either way so I could see Canelo edging it. I think people had a problem with the decision because Golovkin finished strong whereas Canelo built an early lead. It's easy to subconsciously give more weight to the later rounds than the beginning of the fight because that's what is more recent in your mind before the decision is announced. GGG rallying furiously to win the 10th round counts the same as Canelo taking the 1st round easily.

5. I felt like the scorecards were accurate for Canelo-Jacobs

6. I think Father Time took the "Mexican" out of GGG more than Canelo did. If anything, Golovkin has no choice but to fight "Mexican style" now because he doesn't move like he used to. He is getting by on heart and determination (and a stiff jab) these days.

[kushking]

Effective Aggression – Being aggressive gives the impression of dominance, but unless the boxer is landing shots and not constantly getting countered, it’s not exactly “effective.” Judges look for effective aggression, where the aggressor consistently lands his punches and avoids those from his opponent.
Ring Generalship – The fighter who controls the action and enforces his will and style.
Defense – How well is a boxer slipping, parrying, and blocking punches? Good defense is important.
Hard and Clean Punches – To the untrained eye, it can appear as if a boxer is landing a lot of shots, when, in fact, most are being blocked or aren’t landing flush. A judge needs to look for hard shots that land clean.

[kushking]

1. I thought Canelo edged Trout and Trout himself had no issue with the decision

2. I had Lara winning 115-113 but honestly the fight could have gone either way and Lara could have sealed the deal by stopping to trade a little more often. He was landing when he did throw but he fumbled it away a bit by over-moving.

3. I felt like Golovkin won the first fight 116-112 or 115-113 but I don't think a draw was the worst decision ever

4. The GGG rematch could have gone either way so I could see Canelo edging it. I think people had a problem with the decision because Golovkin finished strong whereas Canelo built an early lead. It's easy to subconsciously give more weight to the later rounds than the beginning of the fight because that's what is more recent in your mind before the decision is announced. GGG rallying furiously to win the 10th round counts the same as Canelo taking the 1st round easily.

Much respect for your unbiased opinion,I will post my own cards later,but I wish you would post your official scores for each fight. To anyone reading this Post actual rd by rd cards

[El_Mero]

i had-
Saul over Trout
A draw for the Lara Bout
A win for Golo in the 1st fight
A close win for Saul in the 2nd

[kushking]

i had-
Saul over Trout
A draw for the Lara Bout
A win for Golo in the 1st fight
A close win for Saul in the 2nd

Rd by rd scores if possible please (its ok if you don't score every fight rd by rd but at least do 1 or 2 esp. if you say Canelo lost unofficially

[emceetns]

Much respect for your unbiased opinion,I will post my own cards later,but I wish you would post your official scores for each fight. To anyone reading this Post actual rd by rd cards

I will have to go back and watch it again for round by round. I just shared what I remembered off the top of my head but I don't mind re-watching the fights. After all, it's not like there is any live boxing on....

[Citizen Koba]

Lara I scored a draw, but if pushed for a winner it would have been Canelo.

Trout I don't really see what the fuss was, tough, close fight but Canelo won fairly clear in my book. Debate seems to be more over whether the open scoring messed with Austin's gameplan.

GGGI is the closest I'd come to calling any of Canelo's fights a robbery but I'd stop short of that claim... at a real generous push You might be able to bring it to a Draw depending what you're looking for but I saw it fairly clear to GGG although it was very competitive is most rounds.

GGGII I scored for Golovkin, just, but I ain't crying - we see scores that I'd object to more every other week, and I don't make a fuss about them. One of those really high level fights with both of them neutralising so much of each others work - or forcing caution - that you take take your pick in maybe half the rounds.


Incidentally it might be worthwhile noting that the judging criteria is just 'clean punches' landed according to the ABC judging guidelines, not 'clean hard punches'... I think the understanding is that firstly any assessment of the 'hardness' of a punch is going to be hugely subjective and secondly that an accumulation of less obviously damaging clean punches can reasonably be assessed to have done as much cumulative damage as one or two apparently heavy clean punches.

It's the job of the scorer to kinda assesss the cumulative effect of all the clean punches landed over a 3 minute stanza, not just the ones subjectively assessed as 'hard'.

https://www.abcboxing.com/abc-regulatory-guidelines/

Scoring criteria

The scoring shall be done on a TEN POINT must system. Judges are to score each round using the following scoring criteria:

1. Clean punching (power versus quantity).

2. Effective aggressiveness.

3. Ring generalship.

4. Defense.

https://www.abcboxing.com/ring-offic...ation-program/

The test to measure the awarding of points for “offensive boxing” should be the number of direct, clean punches delivered with the knuckle part of the closed glove on any part of the scoring zone of the opponent’s body above the belt line. The judges should also consider the effect of blows received versus the number of punches delivered. Punches that are blocked or deflected should not be considered in tabulating your score.

Also the Weissfeld article on how to score a fight is very good reading - and yes, I know he scored II for Canelo, but I'm sure Weissfeld himself would be the first to acknowledge that the subjective nature of scoring means that one could adhere to the same solid principles that he lays out and still come to a variety of different scores based on individual impressions of the action. We wouldn't need 3 judges otherwise..

https://www.premierboxingchampions.c...ow-score-fight

Clean punches: To me, clean punches are the most important aspect, and the other factors are really tied to that. Take the phrase, "effective aggressiveness." How is a boxer effective? He's effective by landing clean punches. How about "defense?" A boxer shows great defense by not getting hit with clean punches. And, finally, the term "ring generalship." A boxer uses the ring to put himself in a position to land clean punches.

So let's focus on the phrase "clean punches." It may not be initially apparent, but there are various elements included within that phrase. First, there's the number of punches. The boxer who lands more punches generally wins. However, harder punches count more than lighter punches.

Now, there's no mathematical formula that equates the number of punches with the hardness of the punch. The judge has to weigh the two based on his experience. But more important than the number of punches or the hardness of the punch is the effect of the punch. For example, a seemingly lighter punch that causes a boxer to stagger is scored higher than a seemingly harder punch that has no effect.

I normally wouldn't bother with this kinda thing just cos scoring is so damn subjective, and honestly it ain't like anything can be definitively proven either way, but both the Golovkin - Canelo fights bear watching again, and maybe some discussion could help some folk (including possibly me) notice nuance that had previously been missed. Besides even the scores I gave initially were very rough and ready - impressions more than a real sit down and focus score, so I can't say for sure I'll even score it the same way now as I did at the time.

If we do want to do this though it'll be a case of literally breaking it down one round at a time and working through 'em if you're up for a bit of debate... fact it can even be useful to break it into 1 minute slots sometimes, though it's been a very long time since I bothered to do that.

[kushking]

Lara I scored a draw, but if pushed for a winner it would have been Canelo.

Trout I don't really see what the fuss was, tough, close fight but Canelo won fairly clear in my book. Debate seems to be more over whether the open scoring messed with Austin's gameplan.

GGGI is the closest I'd come to calling any of Canelo's fights a robbery but I'd stop short of that claim... at a real generous push You might be able to bring it to a Draw depending what you're looking for but I saw it fairly clear to GGG although it was very competitive is most rounds.

GGGII I scored for Golovkin, just, but I ain't crying - I see scores that I'd object to more every other week. One of those really high level fights with both of them neutralising so much of each others work - or forcing caution - that you take take your pick in maybe half the rounds.


Incidentally it might be worthwhile noting that the judging criteria is just 'clean punches' landed according to the ABC judging guidelines, not 'clean hard punches'... I think the understanding is that firstly amny assessment of the 'hardness' of a punch is going to be hugely subjective and secondly that an accumulation of less obviously damaging clean punches can reasonably be assessed to have done as much cumulative damage as one or two apparently heavy clean punches.

It's the job of the scorer to kinda assesss the cumulative effect of all the clean punches landed over a 3 minute stanza, not just the ones subjectively assessed as 'hard'.

https://www.abcboxing.com/abc-regulatory-guidelines/

Scoring criteria


https://www.abcboxing.com/ring-offic...ation-program/



I normally wouldn't bother with this kinda thing just cos scoring is so damn subjective, and honestly it ain't like anything can be definitively proven either way, but both the Golovkin - Canelo fights bear watching again, and maybe some discussion could help some folk (including possibly me) notice nuance that had previously been missed. Besides even the scores I gave initially were very rough and ready - impressions more than a real sit down and focus score, so I can't say for sure I'll even score it the same way now as I did at the time.

If we do want to do this though it'll be a case of literally breaking it down one round at a time and working through 'em if you're up for a bit of debate... fact it can even be useful to break it into 1 minute slots sometimes, though it's been a very long time since I borthered to do that.

Great post clear & concise despite not posting any actual rd by rd cards,I overlook that fact in your perspective because as you wrote so many rds were close v ggg so you justify not scoring rd by rd. But as you said the whole pt of this thread is rewatching those fights since we're all under quarantine anyways & maybe someone changes their mind about what they thought at 1st by rewatching without sound.

[kushking]

Heres my 1st "outlandish" conclusion from rewatching the lara fight for the countless time: theres a very credible argument to be made that Lara lost almost every single rd(close but still CLEARLY imho) because every rd is a seperate fight & I honestly didn't see Lara definitively win more than like maybe 2 rds,the rest were close but Canelo was the Agressor who wasn't being countered & who was landing majority of power shots to the body while lara landed almost equal amount of backfoot armpunch jabs.(compubox agrees with this because Canelo landed more of a percentage of his punches as power shots to the stomach than ive ever seen compubox count)