Does B-Hop have an argument for Top 5 P4P ATG?

[QueensburyRules]

B-Hop fought everyone and he showed class throughout, was as disciplined as a martial artist and wouldn’t touch the Soda, and didn’t duck a single fight. He fought well into his fifties. Though his record says otherwise. Only time he clearly lost a fight was against Joe Smith, Jr. and he was old enough to be his Daddy.

I say that’s worthy of ATG top 5.

- -ATG Sissyboy squalin'.

U like Sissyboys?

[OnePunch]

I think the racist thing is fake news.. .

Its not fake news. I worked a few shows for Golden Boy and I can assure you that Hops has no love for white folk.

[_Rexy_]

No, not even close.

[DumpkinsPlus5]

This is a perfect example of people overthinking things. ATG comes down to a fighter's resume and how good he was at his best. At Hopkins best, he's not better than Roy Jones, Ray Leonard, Ray Robinson, or Hagler to name a few. And those are fighters who fought in his weight class.

Let's compare Hopkins to Duran. You'd be able to make a stronger case for Duran being top 5 p4p, as he would be the favorite to beat every other fighter in history at his best weight class. Hopkins wouldn't be favored to clean out the entire history of the middleweight division. He did extraordinary things by fighting at such an old age, but how your peak compares to your peers matters more.

[Bitedown]

Top 5 no....top 20 yes he was a great fighter and used craft to frustrate and beat faster, more athletic fighters...Probably the 2nd greatest boxing mind in the last 35-40 years as far as boxers go

[Fists_of_Fury]

Not a chance in hell!

[chrisJS]

A great fighter but probably not top 50. I don't know that he's a top 10 all-time great middleweight though he was a great one and his results at 175 post 40 are impressive but it's hard to see him top 40 let alone along top 5 or 10.

There is no chance he could be considered greater than the following, for example (roughly ascending in weight class order): Jimmy Wilde, Eder Jofre, Fighting Harada, Terry McGovern, George Dixon, Willie Pep, Sandy Saddler, Packey McFarland, Benny Leonard, Carlos Ortiz, Julio Cesar Chavez, Manny Pacquaio, Roberto Duran, Ike Williams, Pernell Whitaker, Joe Gans, Jimmy McLarnin, Barney Ross, Tony Canzoneri, Henry Armstrong, Joe Walcott, Sugar Ray Leonard, Sugar Ray Robinson, Emile Griffith, Jose Napoles, Luis Rodriguez, Kid Gavilan, Tommy Hearns, Mickey Walker, Charley Burley, Holman Williams, Lloyd Marshall, Harry Greb, Carlos Monzon, Marvelous Marvin Hagler, Roy Jones, Ezzard Charles, Archie Moore, Billy Conn, Gene Tunney, Tommy Loughran, Jimmy Bivins, Sam Langford, Bob Fitzsimmons, Evander Holyfield, Muhammad Ali, Joe Louis.

I think he could rate anywhere from the top of this bunch (no order) to the bottom: Alexis Arguello, Tommy Gibbons, Mike Gibbons, Stanley Ketchel, Jake LaMotta, Michael Spinks, Ted Kid Lewis, Jack Britton, Tommy Ryan, Lou Ambers, Freddie Welsh, **** Tiger, Ruben Olivares, Floyd Mayweather, Harold Johnson, Jim Driscoll

So I'd say 48 at the highest 65 at the lowest so probably in the mid 50's range. Of course, that's a lot of time and some of those fighters the film is limited (or in Greb's case for example doesn't exist) but that doesn't mean you discount accomplishments. You have to measure relative to a fighters era IMO because you have to understand context and the concept of all-time. There will be casuals who don't know half these names and they are generally the most aggressive when it comes to all-time lists or most dismissive because it exposes their lack of knowledge. Boxing has a huge history.

He's still above greats like Joe Frazier, Juan Manuel Marquez, Felix Trinidad, Salvador Sanchez, Wilfredo Gomez, Carlos Zarate who rank among my all-time favorite fighters before anyone accuses bias against Hopkins. He's a great fighter but there's other great fighters too.

[New England]

Jones did not "beat the breaks" off of him..and those other 2 loses he was 40 and 50...What was your point?? people list top boxers like Ali and Robinson and both have gotten their asses kicked so once again whats your point?

oh this will be quite a talk "he didn't beat all four of his brakes off him!"

that was one of the first fights i owned digitally. probably saw it 20 times. jones in his prime was a different level of athlete than hopkins and it was something that he could not overcome. they were two different classes of fighters. did he reel around the ring like deontay wilder did against tyson fury? no. but did he, to address the post to which was replying, "beat hopkins decisively?" absolutely. outclassed him and made him look like an inferior fighter. which, in their primes, he was. jones would land cominations. hopkins would land one shot. jones would land a clean shot on the chin. hopkins would have to settle for a right hand to the side when jones was on his back foot and turning / moving away.

hard fight to find in high quality, but watch it again if you need to. hopkins was not in the fight in the sense that he could have been argued to have won. by about the 4th round hopkins started eating combinations and you could see who was the better man.



now, moving on to the resume. hgopkins has a great, great one. problem is that you are talking about the 5 best boxers ever, and he'd stick out like a sore thumb among them. if you really want to talk about why, we can talk about who is better and why, but i'll throw out that the consensus among experts is that hopkins is way, way outside of the top 10 all time. he's not even the best fighter of his era. floyd mayweather and manny pacquiao had better wins.

his best wins are antonio tarver and felix trinidad. trinidad was great, tarver was very, very good, but neither were at their best when hopkins fought them. trinidad's best weight was WW where he was a champion for six or seven years. he'd been in wars and he was chinny throughout his career to begin with!

hopkins gets a lot of credit for aging so well, and there's a lot ot be said for that. at an age where most guys were retired, hopkins was taking wins over young guys in their primes like pavlik and pascal and building a fantastic resume. but we can't give him too much credit for being old. who cares if you did it as an old guy when someone has such a flat out better resume. robinson had 200 fights, including 30 against hall of famers, and won the middleweight title five times. he's the consensus best welterweight ever. ali has wins over frazier, foreman, liston, norton, and was arguably the best fighter on the planet in two different decades. consensus best or second best HW of all time. armstrong held the true championship of the world at FW, LW, and WW at once. these are the fighters you'll be competing with for a spot in the top 5 of all time.