Wilder VS Foreman, Bag and HL reel, who wins?

[AlexKid]

Fair game . I agree with what u are saying punch technique wise . I just dont see wilder having the mental fortitude to deal with foreman's pressure and tactics . Punch technique or not and I think a part u have addressed the reach is likely the differnce in a lyle comparison ,I think it makes a huge differnce and for the most part foreman was mentally destroyed after the ali fight he wasnt prime anymore he was basically a shell ( mentally) . Iam talking prime vs prime . That's the main reason i cant get behind a lyle comparison altho I see the comparison u have made technique wise clear as day

I would say hands down Foreman would probably get him up close but what if Deontay fires one like he did at ortiz and many others, or like Lyle did to floor Foreman, IT SHOULD make a difference that Wilder is meant to fight at long range because of his length, but hes so powerful hes creating an anomaly in the usual way things go down.

Hes now making it so a lanky guy can get you out close, with a straight....

[AlexKid]

A Foreman punch loaded up puts a dent in the bag and knocks a man back and its obviously concussive not pushy, Deontay and Foreman do some incredible things with their power.

[AlexKid]

I think both of them would take each other out Im not sure who would do it more often than the other. Foreman has 2 hands but Deontay is longer ranged and faster.

Foremans head doesn't move enough he didnt need to for others but he needs to for Wilder

I think Foreman is overall a more complete and skillful fighter than Wilder.

[QueensburyRules]

- -What grade U in?

Foreman great from day one of donning gloves. Not so Deyonce...Duh!!!

[LetOutTheCage]

Old Foreman beats Wilder, Young Foreman demolishes him. Foreman was destroying fighters at the peak of the heavyweight division, Wilder has yet to beat anyone truly special and most of his ko's have been against bums

[boliodogs]

Foreman wins a fight most likely but Wilder can KO anybody if he hits the with his best straight right. Foreman had more different types of KO punches.Wilder has a hard left hook but his straight right is by far his best punch. Everything Foreman threw was very hard. His Straight punches, hooks and uppercuts with either hand were all very hard. For one single monster bomb Wilder might hit slightly harder than Foreman with his lightning fast straight right, BOMB SQUAD!

[Marchegiano]

Uh, , I may need to revert my sig back to Wilder/Foreman 39 for 39. Throw in Marciano and you've my favorite of three all time.

I dunno how serious this thread is but I'm gonna get all science in this *****.





I like reading the kinetic linking. I'm not so bold as to claim I taught you that, but, I've been talking about kinematic chains and kinetic pairs for years here. It's nice to read someone else out there has taken notice to basic kinesiology. It's really elementary level physics, but, most boxing fans won't bother to learn and will always believe power is magic.


If we can get a consensus on what the bags weigh and how much they've moved from origin on one punch I could tell you an estimate based off those figures for each man's power.


Marciano is the only man in the history of boxing to have his punch measured scientifically. Everyone else does promotional **** and inflates their numbers with conversions.....that's why they use electronics to measure a physical sequence....for to bull**** you.

Kinetics converted to electrical converted back to kinetic....think of it in terms of music, does that track still sound good after so many conversions? Artifacts right? Same, except in this case they want those conversion problems to use as justification for rounding or just presenting a larger number than a real unit would provide. The folks who work with the UFC are terrible for this. "Fight Science" has no science at all and the educational worth of Ancient Aliens....none.

So even just an estimate, we're on our own really, but it is not impossible. I'd've done it myself but things like scale and distance in a video, maybe we have a video nerd here who can see more properly distances in videos. There's no reason for me to say "X moved Y weight Z feet" if folks are going to argue with any element X, Y, or Z represent. An agreed XYZ can lead to an agreed output though.



I think Wilder hit hardest in terms of actual, scientific, Power. - The explosion of energy, or, energy release and growth compared to time. This explains the absolute and speed of the short circuit of his KOs off a single punch.

I think Foreman hits harder in term of actual, scientific, Force. - Essentially movement. Force is when work, energy, causes a body to move from its position by way of the energy alone. George moved men into position by punching them there and then ended them, often. As with Wilder's force, Foreman has ample Power but I believe his Force is the overriding factor and you've to pick a lane.

If a body is being moved THEN that body has already converted Power to Force....Ali, the ropes, you know what's good. Ali stole all of Foreman's Power and converted it to Force then transferred it to the ring. Anyway, my point here is for you to recognize the flow of energy. If a massive amount of energy is put into a dome and that dome doesn't go flying but rather snaps back, that's Power being absorbed by the impact zone, in this case a head. If the same punch causes a man to run backwards a bit or fall on their ass, that's Power converted to Force.

I think after that explanation it's clear Power and Force have as much to do with the punched as the puncher and to get one over the other constantly can only be attributed to the puncher's style forcing the punched into their game. Wilder's punches can be made forceful rather than powerful, all you have to do is stop him from putting that energy into your body and instead force that energy to transfer in some way, even if it's just the air it transfers to. Mayweather is good at rolling punches so that they have little power, little force too but more force left than power because Money forced the issue....pun.


Now let's get back to this business of kinetic linking. If Wilder has his kinematic chains, and yes it's called kinematic when you've more than two pairs or links, anyway, if D's chains are on point then where does the energy flow? There's nowhere for it to go but into the victim directly. Not indirectly.

Inversely, if Foreman's shots are not on par in the chains department then his power is being absorbed a little by his body causing a weakness in the energy transfer which allows the reactive force created by contact to then take that energy and take advantage of breaks in the chain by converting that energy from Power to Force.

To say that differently, a proper hook may not move your head as much as a ballpark swang like street fighting bums like to do but it will hurt way more. A swang might move your head around more like being hit with a pillow in a pillow fight but will not cause the damage a hook would have.

Now, consider this. What if Foreman threw his punches like Marciano? Not just kinematic chains but absurd trajectories.....if he could KO with Force imagine the damage he'd do with Power? Yes I did equate George Foreman to a pillow fight.....and he'd still knockout 99% of most PROs ever! ****ing Woof. Gorilla, Demon, Monster, I dunno what you call the man but Big G is no damn joke for sure. He'll eat yer soul.

Keeping in mind, I'm not saying Foreman doesn't have good chains, he does, and Old G was a great boxer slowing mugs down and fighting his fight, but compared to Wilder his kinetics are not so great....just the truth.




Finally, just to throw Rock back in. Despite his size he may still be the most damaging puncher of all time. In kinetics, Wilder has plenty to learn still. In size, his fist is small while his thighs are average and modern for HWs. In form his line of sight play is second to no puncher. He's like a ball-peen hammer strapped to a heat seeking missle. You might see it coming but you can't stop it, and, damn it'll hurt....which might explain why he has more than double their number of men forced into retirement by them.








Conclusion:

Wilder = Power

Foreman = Force

Marciano = Damage

All three are kings of the punch.

[eco1]

Foreman takes Wilder's punch and hits back.

Next thing we know is we are at Wilder's funeral.

[Skyway71]

On the bag... Wildernator is faster, put combos together as well as moving around the bag for the angles. Foreman looks to be the telegraphic harder puncher, the slowest and too flat footed.

In a HW fight... Wildernator would probably win based on his attributes over Foreman.

[SplitSecond]

Wilder couldn’t stop an in shape Stiverne, he stands very little chance to stop Foreman. I’d very confidently pick George to crush him early.