Comments Thread For: BoxingScene.com's 2019 Fighter of The Year - Canelo Alvarez

[Robi13]

These people dont know how to score fights... GGG won the first 6 rounds which included an 8-10 round for the knockdown and AT LEAST one more round between 7 to 12 which clearly makes him the winner.

Golovkin doesn't move his head & has always been willing to take shots to get his own off. He fought Jacobs at a time of having 23 consecutive KO's so people were always going to have a view that Jacobs did well. Canelo is the opposite and has lots of lateral movement but his fight with Jacobs was dull and included no knockdowns. As Canelo faded down the stretch Jacobs grew into the fight and finished strong - this was reflected in the near draw scorecards on two judges cards.

So you know more than professional judges? Ok

[Citizen Koba]

I’m talking about in the scoring, not the damage it does to a boxer. You do know a power punch is scored higher than jabs right? Give you an example.... say in a boxing match a both fighters land the exact same amount of punches and miss the same exact amount of punches with the only difference that one fighter lands all jabs and the other lands all power punches... who wins the round? The power puncher does, and why don’t you know this fact?

Whoah. Where did you find that tidbit? There's nothing in any official set of rules anywhere which says anything like that, and in fact nothing in any official set of rules I've ever seen that says anything about 'power punches' at all.

In fact the term 'power punches' was pretty much made up by the folk at Compubox cos they thought calling 'em 'non-jabs' sounded ****** and the decision to divide punches into jabs and non-jabs was, best I can tell, pretty much arbitrary. They could just as well have divided them into lead hand and non-lead hand, or straights and non-straights.

https://web.archive.org/web/20110723...ort.net/?p=958

We call a non jab a power punch for lack of a better description. I know some people who really don’t really understand the program have said in the past, “How can a guy land 300 power punches and not knock the guy out?” Well we call it power punch because it sounds better than non jab.

It's a weird phenomenon, man, but to me is a good illustration of just how much the language used to talk about a subject influences how people think about it. We got so used to folk talking about 'power punches' and Compubox making the differentiation that people have actually started thinking it's part of the scoring criteria.

[Robi13]

Whoah. Where did you find that tidbit? There's nothing in any official set of rules anywhere which says anything like that, and in fact nothing in any official set of rules I've ever seen that says anything about 'power punches' at all and the decision to divide punches into jabs and non-jabs was best I can tell pretty much arbitrary. They could just as well have divided them into lead hand and non-lead hand, or straights and non-straights.

In fact the term 'power punches' was pretty much made up by the folk at Compubox cos they thought calling 'em 'non-jabs' sounded ******.

https://web.archive.org/web/20110723...ort.net/?p=958



It's a weird phenomenon, man, but to me is a good illustration of just how much the language used to talk about a subject influences how people think about it. We got so used to folk talking about 'power punches' and Compubox making the differentiation that people have actually started thinking it's part of the scoring criteria.

Ok good points, and the criteria is “hard clean punches” so a triple g jab can be hard and clean, however... a hard clean uppercut or hook or body shot will always sway not only the fans but judges more than a hard clean jab... it’s been that way forever... non jabs as you call it just look better than a jab... wether it’s fair or not, isn’t my point in trying to make... in the first fight ggg was reduced to mainly a jabber and his body work was non existent... while canelo countered and landed most of the hard clean punches... people cried that he “ran” then he proceeded to stay in the pocket all fight in the rematch and really put a whoopin on ggg... evident by his face and running out of the ring... while again ggg was mainly landing jabs

[Citizen Koba]

Ok good points, and the criteria is “hard clean punches” so a triple g jab can be hard and clean, however... a hard clean uppercut or hook or body shot will always sway not only the fans but judges more than a hard clean jab... it’s been that way forever... non jabs as you call it just look better than a jab... wether it’s fair or not, isn’t my point in trying to make... in the first fight ggg was reduced to mainly a jabber and his body work was non existent... while canelo countered and landed most of the hard clean punches... people cried that he “ran” then he proceeded to stay in the pocket all fight in the rematch and really put a whoopin on ggg... evident by his face and running out of the ring... while again ggg was mainly landing jabs

Well, yeah, it actaully wasn't my intent at all to involve myself in your debate on the scoring of that particular fight, merely to correct a misunderstanding that I've seen a great deal of in the last few years regarding the term 'power punches' and scoring... you're far from the only one that was thinking that, but it just happened to be your post I noticed.

As a rule I tend tpo avoid post fight scoring debates and stuff, cos that stuff get's real subjective real quick, we quite literally see different fights from one another depending on our expectations, our focus and so on.

But anyways, I'll make some general observations, firstly, sure, absolutely a good clean uppercut or hook will be noticed more and almost inevitably weighed higher in scoring that a good clean jab, and rightly too IMO unless there's some obvious physical sign that the jab was more damaging or hurtful.

Thing is the good clean 'power shot' connects are actually relatively uncommon when you've got two top class opperators facing each other... despite the impression you might get from the highlight vids or even the end of round clips. You ever noticed in these high level fights how often they can't even find a single really good connect to show in the end of round clips and resort to some scrappy bit of action instead?

So that's where the nuance comes in - how do score a clean jab against a not particularly clean non-jab connect, which is what the majority of 'em are? How do we rate a non clean jab compared to maybe a glancing or partly blocked hoiok? Obviously that's gonna vary punch by punch and viewer by viewer.

Ach. Damn.. Ima have to go unfortunately, so I gotta cut this short... in brief you got an elite class jabber in GGG vs an elite class defensive counter-puncher in Canelo, that's what you get. Golovkin figured very quickly that Canelo's greater handspeed and great counterpunching made most of his offensive work a dangerous proposition, so he stuck with what was working... so yeah, if you like he Canelo turned GGG into a jabber, but equally the danger represented by Golovkin made Canelo very wary of opening up at all to the extent where his success was limited to just a handful of clean punches in the entire fight. Take from it what you will, ain't for me to tell you how to see something.

Ain't got time to go into the second fight, but again a very well matched bout, with GGG actually fighting pretty much textbook how you should deal with a strong aggressive opponent, with the speed to beat you to the punch... circling back without ever really giving up the ground and again working off a jab which gave him his best chance both aof consitent success and of creating openings which ultimately were very infrequent due to Canelo's defensive acumen. Again. Worthy of more words but another time my man.

[Elastic Recoil]

Ok good points, and the criteria is “hard clean punches” so a triple g jab can be hard and clean, however... a hard clean uppercut or hook or body shot will always sway not only the fans but judges more than a hard clean jab... it’s been that way forever... non jabs as you call it just look better than a jab... wether it’s fair or not, isn’t my point in trying to make... in the first fight ggg was reduced to mainly a jabber and his body work was non existent... while canelo countered and landed most of the hard clean punches... people cried that he “ran” then he proceeded to stay in the pocket all fight in the rematch and really put a whoopin on ggg... evident by his face and running out of the ring... while again ggg was mainly landing jabs

As you probably know there's other areas of scoring such as ring generalship and aggression. Golovkin made Canelo fight his type of fight in the first bout and in some rounds was almost chasing down Canelo - the pressure was relentless. The clean shots you mentioned were merely cameos, you cant expect to win a round if you're being outworked and out positioned for a majority of the round but throw one or two good clean shots, thats not how it works. The fans knew what they saw on that night - why do you think his own Mexican people were booing him in the arena?

You seem to have a thing about jabs... is a jab not a punch? If we're not counting jabs in the rematch then yeah Canelo won however the jab is a punch and Golovkin's jab was ever present in Canelo's face throughout the 12 rounds. We're talking stiff, ram rod power jabs here - not your average range finder type shot. Listen to the sound when the jabs were landing on Canelo, it was a very percussive thudding sound hence Alvarez' nose constantly dripping with blood and his eye busted open as early as round 5...

[Robi13]

Well, yeah, it actaully wasn't my intent at all to involve myself in your debate on the scoring of that particular fight, merely to correct a misunderstanding that I've seen a great deal of in the last few years regarding the term 'power punches' and scoring... you're far from the only one that was thinking that, but it just happened to be your post I noticed.

As a rule I tend tpo avoid post fight scoring debates and stuff, cos that stuff get's real subjective real quick, we quite literally see different fights from one another depending on our expectations, our focus and so on.

But anyways, I'll make some general observations, firstly, sure, absolutely a good clean uppercut or hook will be noticed more and almost inevitably weighed higher in scoring that a good clean jab, and rightly too IMO unless there's some obvious physical sign that the jab was more damaging or hurtful.

Thing is the good clean 'power shot' connects are actually relatively uncommon when you've got two top class opperators facing each other... despite the impression you might get from the highlight vids or even the end of round clips. You ever noticed in these high level fights how often they can't even find a single really good connect to show in the end of round clips and resort to some scrappy bit of action instead?

So that's where the nuance comes in - how do score a clean jab against a not particularly clean non-jab connect, which is what the majority of 'em are? How do we rate a non clean jab compared to maybe a glancing or partly blocked hoiok? Obviously that's gonna vary punch by punch and viewer by viewer.

Ach. Damn.. Ima have to go unfortunately, so I gotta cut this short... in brief you got an elite class jabber in GGG vs an elite class defensive counter-puncher in Canelo, that's what you get. Golovkin figured very quickly that Canelo's greater handspeed and great counterpunching made most of his offensive work a dangerous proposition, so he stuck with what was working... so yeah, if you like he Canelo turned GGG into a jabber, but equally the danger represented by Golovkin made Canelo very wary of opening up at all to the extent where his success was limited to just a handful of clean punches in the entire fight. Take from it what you will, ain't for me to tell you how to see something.

Ain't got time to go into the second fight, but again a very well matched bout, with GGG actually fighting pretty much textbook how you should deal with a strong aggressive opponent, with the speed to beat you to the punch... circling back without ever really giving up the ground and again working off a jab which gave him his best chance both aof consitent success and of creating openings which ultimately were very infrequent due to Canelo's defensive acumen. Again. Worthy of more words but another time my man.

that’s excellent! Thanks!!!

[The Big Dunn]

Makes sense. I would've love to see Navarette get it because he fought so often and was so dominant.

[aboutfkntime]

my take on the jab thing...

this pedanticism is just silly

nobody said that the judges do not score jabs, they score all meaningful punches

FACT: MANY jabs, will not score AT ALL !!

any pushed/poked/prodded jabs, WILL NOT BE SCORED... judges are not interested in that pointless ineffectual rubbish... body-tapping in the clinch, will not be scored... anything that touches gloves, shoulders, forearms, WILL NOT BE SCORED

the rules are crystal clear, and do not need clarification by any story tellers

* clean hard punching
* effective aggression
* defence
* ring generalship

anyone who needs the 4 official criteria explained to them should not be here

[Bautizzle]

I got another fun fact!

How many 154 lb champions won a LHW belt?

Haha against a shot Kovalev good one

[Bautizzle]

Got sore p@ssy? Need me throw salt on it and rub it out???

It’s not my fault your feelings are hurt because that cheating ****** ginger needs PEDS for all his fights lol typical Mexican