Comments Thread For: Joshua: Fight With Wilder-Fury Winner Must Happen in 2020

[Ray*]

Sounds like you're are one of those sick in the head AJ fans that doesn't want him fighting anyone difficult.

Not surprised after he got humiliated by a morbidly obese cruiserweight.

I couldn't give a toss about Joshua. If you think am a Joshua fan then it says a lot about what you know really. I can't help you there.

[Inspired]

You think AJ is more popular in America than Wilder. You think Americans care more about AJ than Wilder? You AJ fans just dont quit huh. Canelo is not an American fighter he is not the most popular American fighter, that fact you brought him up just wreaks of bias. You see what AJ fans do (and realize I'm saying AJ fans and not boxing fans) is strip any credit or achievement from Wilder. AJ fans do it by creating false narratives, spreading propaganda, saying things like AJ is more popular in the US. Saying things like Wilder vs Fury failed as a super fight, when not a single person said it was a super fight. So google decides who's the most popular boxer in the US now?

You fans need to really step back and read the crap you spew forth. AJ got knocked out by an American boxer, in MSG, he just fought a rematch against that American boxer, why would he not be of interest? It's your assessment that it makes him more popular in America? DAZN got a boost because of Canelo, not AJ, Americans did not sign on to DAZN for AJ but good try, as a matter of fact DAZN got 1.8 million viewers for the AJ Ruiz rematch, that's across 9 markets, of which the US is one, so that in it of itself should tell you the lack of popularity AJ sustains in the US. Just like Vladimir, and Lewis before AJ, both of whom were far more popular than AJ in the US. If AJ fought on PPV here, with out a legit opponent, he'd be lucky to crack 150k. Do you know why, because we have showtime ratings in the US to prove it. AJ could not even brake 300k views on showtime. Wilder has constantly broke the 1 million mark, as well as surpassing 2 million viewers twice. Not even GGG who is far more popular in the US than AJ has matched these numbers with out Canelo on the other side of the ring.

So I ask, why disparage the man by saying things like AJ is more popular in the US? It's clearly not true, based on actual numbers not Google.

1)
You think AJ is more popular in America than Wilder. You think Americans care more about AJ than Wilder?


Not once did I make that specific claim. I pointed out that we know what numbers Wilder does in his best fights eg 200k to 300k ppv buys.
AJ is with dazn which is a very different type of business model and is broadcast in several international territories. They also monetise big data. So AJ has been paid around $30-40m from dazn for the ruiz fights twice.

The other guy was claiming if the fight does 1m ppv buys ($70m) then Wilder should get more money (ie 50-50) BUT that has to be split 2 ways..and dazn will pay more for it. Since AJ is with dazn, as far as the US money split goes, AJ takes the cake. When Wilder's people asked dazn 'what will AJ get?' dazn refused to answer. It is not upto wilder what dazn pay aj..it only matters what they would pay him. He turned it down and said he wants 50%.

2)
Saying things like Wilder vs Fury failed as a super fight, when not a single person said it was a super fight.
wtf
Wilder vs Fury WAS/IS a superfight. Wilder said Fury was the number 2. so it was in his mind, the number 1 vs the number 2. He said AJ was the number 4 in the division, so of course that fight should have been the money fight. it wasn't.
So why should wilder get 5x more vs AJ?
If YOU insist that 'it's different because it's wilder vs aj and we all want to see that..there's more demand for that fight etc' then it's entirely because of AJ. AJ is the common denominator.
Take AJ away and wilder gets little.

In fact let's look at it closer
Wilder was on $1m a fight. He was offered $5m for Whyte, refused (wtf?) and then showtime were forced to pay wilder $2m vs ortiz (who he insisted was the number 2 at the time).

So right there, Wilder doubled his earnings because of matchroom's interest. Just process that ffs...seriously.

Then Wilder was offered $12.5m and $15m from matchroom for AJ. He refused it outright, made excuses, stalled, put out a dodgy offer of $50m (with contradictory terms through the media) and the end result was it landed him this fight vs Tyson Fury..which in the end did 300k ppv buys or something like that. Wilder earnt $5-8m tops.
Then Wilder was offered $20m for brezeale..and that forced Showtime to pay $8-10m.

So wilder's earnings only went up due to matchroom and dazn, with AJ being the common denominator. Without aj/eddie hearn/dazn, wilder would be doing very poorly (in relative terms).

Put things into context then, if AJ fights Wilder, if it's on showtime and does 500k buys or 1m buys..or it's on dazn, eitherway AJ is the driving force behind the interest. That doesnt mean 'he is more popular than wilder in america' it just means that people only care about wilder when it's AJ he's supposed to fight. That once again means aj is the common denominator.

3) Canelo is not an American fighter he is not the most popular American fighter, that fact you brought him up just wreaks of bias.

he's mexican, the US has lots of mexican americans, therefore Canelo is the biggest boxing star in the US. being american doesnt mean ****, it adds nothing to the argument.
Look, in the UK/USA, the biggest e-tailers online ie on amazon/ebay, are chinese. Being british or american means nothing, people want what they want. Think of the US boxing scene as one big marketplace. There's no reason why an american should be more popular than a non-american.
Conor Mcgregor is the biggest star to come out of the UFC.

4)
You see what AJ fans do (and realize I'm saying AJ fans and not boxing fans) is strip any credit or achievement from Wilder. AJ fans do it by creating false narratives, spreading propaganda, saying things like AJ is more popular in the US.

bs
propaganda is like when Wilder would deliberately stall offers, then change the argument.
Example
Wilder's team publicly accept $15m offer. Weeks later, they've not even responded and Eddie Hearn is on record saying 'we're still waiting'.
Then they come back with 'omg it doesnt have AJ's signature, this is fake' etc.
Then they claim 'the terms arent right' and Eddie hearn responds 'if the terms arent right why did they publicly claim they were accepting it? why would they not say this then?'.
They waited until Canelo vs ggg was announced..and since espinoza was in on it and knew, this was planned. When that fight was announced, espinoza told eddie that they have to move the aj vs wilder fight to october to not clash with canelo vs ggg. Eddie publicly explained that now it's likely due to the weather being worse in october (it's a rainy month) they'll likely do it at the Principality stadium in Cardiff, which has a closing roof and 80k capacity and is just as good as Wembley).
Wilder and his fans then made as much noise as possible to say 'omg they liars, no venue, no date'.

months later wilder said 'they wanted that big castle, then said they cant do it when it was me, but then they did povetkin there, so they liars'
obviously povetkin wasnt a superfight that would clash with canelo vs ggg as a ppv superfight...therefore they could keep the September Wembley date for povetkin but not for wilder

It doesnt even take much intelligence to understand the above point, but wilder and his dumb as **** fans couldnt understand that.
we know the ldbc/pbc cult narratives, the blatant propaganda and lies. 'for the culture' right? seriously this isnt me being a ****, this is how ldbc/pbc operate, so please dont talk about propaganda.

5) wilder has been known since around 2011. he's had more fights...and furthermore the past few yrs showtime have pumped mega money into promoting him. So he should be far far more popular than aj in the US
you're talking about the numbers AJ did on showtime before..then arguing that aj would fail to crack 150k ppv buys.

that doesnt mean ****...in reality aj is with dazn and they pay him a lot more than wilder gets..and we're talking about money primarily not popularity.

6)
aj has boxed once in the US, wilder's been at it for years...sorry, he's just never going to be a superstar.

when i was watching him in 2011..i thought 'within 2-3 yrs he'll be the guy to knock out klitschko'
didn't happen....

it's his own fault for boxing bums for 39 fights.
why did he box ortiz twice? seriously man?
just fking knock the **** out of whyte.
al haymon made brezeale the mandatory...because brezeale was going to sue wilder. why did wbc jump in? it's all just dodgy ****.
wilder should not have been in with ortiz or brezeale..
he could have knocked out whyte and parker in that time.

i dont think wilder is afraid, i think the people who handle him are really weird.

[The plunger man]

UK is home of the low IQ casual fans, complete talentless bums like Dave Allen , David price are PPV stars over there. Lol....

what on Earth are you talking about gumbo lol there are only 2 or 3 box office fighters in the uk and that’s it...again a dimwit like you is confusing an undercard fighter fighting on the undercard of box office fighter....but your ******ed and you seem to be confused with how a show is put together

[Froch_uppercut]

Exactly! Make the other side feel like they want it. If he continues chasing them then the other side would feel like they are somebody, fact is without the belt they aren’t much more than a Fury or a Whyte.

I think Hearn has learn in that aspect, Joshua needs to learn that too. Trying to achieve the undisputed in a short space of time is great and all.

But for me it looked like the other side are terrified to take a chance, even when they are going to be compensated with millions.

I feel like they are torn. On the one hand they really want to try and get ducker Wilder to fight a unification fight, on the other hand they are, literally, worn down by disgusting lies and excuses, and are almost resigned to it not happening. Wilder doesn't want it, period. At some point you stop mentioning his name because he loves the publicity of TALKING about the fight but just won't make it.
I think there is a slim chance that the WBC actually lets Whyte fight Wilder, but not after two, maybe 3 more fights (FUry x 2 possibly plus another no name), and Whyte is more than capable of beating Wilder (which is why he wants to duck Whyte) - anyway, that's the only unification I see. Whyte takes it off Wilder, and AJ Whyte rematch. Either that or Fury wins it, but Fury is so volatile he may defend against Otto Wallin and Sefer Seferi before going on a bender, failing a drugs test and joining WWE or UFC.

[hugh grant]

Wilder is only good at verbal explanation of what h ed do to josh, just like Charles Martin and kevin johnson did.
Practical demonstration not so much.

[KnickTillDeaTh]

[QUOTE=The plunger man;20257784]

Please post link. It has been reported by multiple sites that AJ has earned close to 60 million.


[/https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/boxing/article-7748665/66MILLION-pay-day-Joshua-Briton-rakes-staggering-fee-Saudi-rematch-Ruiz-Jnr.html

Pretty big number for AJ, however as I always do, I'll wait for a second source before I believe that number, but it's not far off the 60 million pound estimate so I can definitely see that. But let's be real, the Saudis throw a lot of money around and AJ took advantage of that, but that does not constitute the "regular" money in boxing. When we talk about the economy of boxing, Saudi Arabia is a place that will throw money at singular fighters, way above market value, just to draw them. However, the U.S. still reins supreme, as indicated by the very same article you linked

"Yet richer pickings await AJ in a fight against Deontay Wilder or Tyson Fury next year for the undisputed world heavyweight title,"....

Those fights will not be in Saudi Arabia, and AJ is expected to make more money, why? Because it'll bring in the U.S. audience. By the way this ain't Schit talking or flag waiving, I'm Puerto Rican. It just is what it is.

Thanks for the link.

[KnickTillDeaTh]

1)
You think AJ is more popular in America than Wilder. You think Americans care more about AJ than Wilder?


Not once did I make that specific claim. I pointed out that we know what numbers Wilder does in his best fights eg 200k to 300k ppv buys.
AJ is with dazn which is a very different type of business model and is broadcast in several international territories. They also monetise big data. So AJ has been paid around $30-40m from dazn for the ruiz fights twice.

The other guy was claiming if the fight does 1m ppv buys ($70m) then Wilder should get more money (ie 50-50) BUT that has to be split 2 ways..and dazn will pay more for it. Since AJ is with dazn, as far as the US money split goes, AJ takes the cake. When Wilder's people asked dazn 'what will AJ get?' dazn refused to answer. It is not upto wilder what dazn pay aj..it only matters what they would pay him. He turned it down and said he wants 50%.

2)
Saying things like Wilder vs Fury failed as a super fight, when not a single person said it was a super fight.
wtf
Wilder vs Fury WAS/IS a superfight. Wilder said Fury was the number 2. so it was in his mind, the number 1 vs the number 2. He said AJ was the number 4 in the division, so of course that fight should have been the money fight. it wasn't.
So why should wilder get 5x more vs AJ?
If YOU insist that 'it's different because it's wilder vs aj and we all want to see that..there's more demand for that fight etc' then it's entirely because of AJ. AJ is the common denominator.
Take AJ away and wilder gets little.

In fact let's look at it closer
Wilder was on $1m a fight. He was offered $5m for Whyte, refused (wtf?) and then showtime were forced to pay wilder $2m vs ortiz (who he insisted was the number 2 at the time).

So right there, Wilder doubled his earnings because of matchroom's interest. Just process that ffs...seriously.

Then Wilder was offered $12.5m and $15m from matchroom for AJ. He refused it outright, made excuses, stalled, put out a dodgy offer of $50m (with contradictory terms through the media) and the end result was it landed him this fight vs Tyson Fury..which in the end did 300k ppv buys or something like that. Wilder earnt $5-8m tops.
Then Wilder was offered $20m for brezeale..and that forced Showtime to pay $8-10m.

So wilder's earnings only went up due to matchroom and dazn, with AJ being the common denominator. Without aj/eddie hearn/dazn, wilder would be doing very poorly (in relative terms).

Put things into context then, if AJ fights Wilder, if it's on showtime and does 500k buys or 1m buys..or it's on dazn, eitherway AJ is the driving force behind the interest. That doesnt mean 'he is more popular than wilder in america' it just means that people only care about wilder when it's AJ he's supposed to fight. That once again means aj is the common denominator.

3) Canelo is not an American fighter he is not the most popular American fighter, that fact you brought him up just wreaks of bias.

he's mexican, the US has lots of mexican americans, therefore Canelo is the biggest boxing star in the US. being american doesnt mean ****, it adds nothing to the argument.
Look, in the UK/USA, the biggest e-tailers online ie on amazon/ebay, are chinese. Being british or american means nothing, people want what they want. Think of the US boxing scene as one big marketplace. There's no reason why an american should be more popular than a non-american.
Conor Mcgregor is the biggest star to come out of the UFC.

4)
You see what AJ fans do (and realize I'm saying AJ fans and not boxing fans) is strip any credit or achievement from Wilder. AJ fans do it by creating false narratives, spreading propaganda, saying things like AJ is more popular in the US.

bs
propaganda is like when Wilder would deliberately stall offers, then change the argument.
Example
Wilder's team publicly accept $15m offer. Weeks later, they've not even responded and Eddie Hearn is on record saying 'we're still waiting'.
Then they come back with 'omg it doesnt have AJ's signature, this is fake' etc.
Then they claim 'the terms arent right' and Eddie hearn responds 'if the terms arent right why did they publicly claim they were accepting it? why would they not say this then?'.
They waited until Canelo vs ggg was announced..and since espinoza was in on it and knew, this was planned. When that fight was announced, espinoza told eddie that they have to move the aj vs wilder fight to october to not clash with canelo vs ggg. Eddie publicly explained that now it's likely due to the weather being worse in october (it's a rainy month) they'll likely do it at the Principality stadium in Cardiff, which has a closing roof and 80k capacity and is just as good as Wembley).
Wilder and his fans then made as much noise as possible to say 'omg they liars, no venue, no date'.

months later wilder said 'they wanted that big castle, then said they cant do it when it was me, but then they did povetkin there, so they liars'
obviously povetkin wasnt a superfight that would clash with canelo vs ggg as a ppv superfight...therefore they could keep the September Wembley date for povetkin but not for wilder

It doesnt even take much intelligence to understand the above point, but wilder and his dumb as **** fans couldnt understand that.
we know the ldbc/pbc cult narratives, the blatant propaganda and lies. 'for the culture' right? seriously this isnt me being a ****, this is how ldbc/pbc operate, so please dont talk about propaganda.

5) wilder has been known since around 2011. he's had more fights...and furthermore the past few yrs showtime have pumped mega money into promoting him. So he should be far far more popular than aj in the US
you're talking about the numbers AJ did on showtime before..then arguing that aj would fail to crack 150k ppv buys.

that doesnt mean ****...in reality aj is with dazn and they pay him a lot more than wilder gets..and we're talking about money primarily not popularity.

6)
aj has boxed once in the US, wilder's been at it for years...sorry, he's just never going to be a superstar.

when i was watching him in 2011..i thought 'within 2-3 yrs he'll be the guy to knock out klitschko'
didn't happen....

it's his own fault for boxing bums for 39 fights.
why did he box ortiz twice? seriously man?
just fking knock the **** out of whyte.
al haymon made brezeale the mandatory...because brezeale was going to sue wilder. why did wbc jump in? it's all just dodgy ****.
wilder should not have been in with ortiz or brezeale..
he could have knocked out whyte and parker in that time.

i dont think wilder is afraid, i think the people who handle him are really weird.

There is absolutely no reason to discuss this any further with you. You are quite clearly an AJ only fan delivering skewed facts and your own personal version of events. You posted multiple lines of drivel regurgitating the same false talking points as the AJ trolls on these forums, and here I thought I was about to have a decent boxing conversation. You dont understand how the U.S. market works, you dont understand how DAZN works and has very little influence in the U.S. other than with Golden Boy. You can easily pull up multiple articles from multiple sources including Forbes that tell what Wilder actually made for his fights against Ortiz 1, Fury 1, Breazele, Ortiz 2. But instead you post more drivel. You dont know what a super fight is defined as. I'm just done with you.

You can go ahead and respond, but I will not. Enjoy your day.

[Inspired]

There is absolutely no reason to discuss this any further with you. You are quite clearly an AJ only fan delivering skewed facts and your own personal version of events. You posted multiple lines of drivel regurgitating the same false talking points as the AJ trolls on these forums, and here I thought I was about to have a decent boxing conversation. You dont understand how the U.S. market works, you dont understand how DAZN works and has very little influence in the U.S. other than with Golden Boy. You can easily pull up multiple articles from multiple sources including Forbes that tell what Wilder actually made for his fights against Ortiz 1, Fury 1, Breazele, Ortiz 2. But instead you post more drivel. You dont know what a super fight is defined as. I'm just done with you.

You can go ahead and respond, but I will not. Enjoy your day.

I didn't make a single point that was actually biased. I used to be more of a fan of Wilder before. I'm the type of guy who if people hype a guy...or for example a football team or a tv show, i will support the underdog.

I believe Wilder was handled poorly by GBP. They were putting in way more effort with Amir Khan when Wilder was the same age and around 30-0 with a 100% ko record. Mad isnt it?
they had Wilder on the Amir Khan undercard in 2013....the fking undercard of the same amir khan who got humiliated by Danny Garcia.
Deontay Wilder was actually making way more noise with the locals...british boxing fans were giving him hype and supporting him. That's why even till recently Wilder comes back to Sheffield and hangs around with some of those fans who met him all those years ago.

Wilder then switched to pbc..and this is where im not biased but truthful....pbc/al haymon have fked wilder's career. This is a guy who in 2014 should have been fast tracked and backed to fight Wladmir klitschko...and ko him.
We know what happened.

Eddie was able to pay $1m for charles martin to deliver the IBF belt for Joshua who came onto the scene years after wilder. Yet Martin was always an al haymon fighter...so why didnt al haymon pay that for wilder?
fact is, in 2017 wilder was on $1m himself.
trust me, al haymon never backed wilder. it was only in a context where AJ started generating big money al haymon/shirley wrinkle realised wilder is worth a lot..and even then it's in the context of 'because of aj'

there is no bias/hate on my part if i say that wilder just hasnt made it big.
Eddie was spot on
wilder is a 6ft7 monster, a knock out artist, black, athletic...he has the entire look and a boxing record to become fking HUGE in the US and globally..
then why hasnt he?
mate...al haymon hasnt promoted him properly.
it isnt just about throwing money from broadcasters and putting on some documentaries.
what's the diff between aj and fury in the uk? it isnt just that aj has sky sports backing...because fury has bt sports who are just as big...
it's because aj represents modern urban youth culture.
do you get this?...and most of the sponsors aj has had, whether it's beats or underarmor, it reflects urban culture.

if wilder was promoted right, he would have been endorsed by the biggest sponsors in the US. he wouldnt be dressed like a french hooker.
Take a little look at Haney and the way he carries himself. that boy, he has been self promoted really...what does he wear?

Wilder should have been on mainstream sportswear ads. got endorsed early through US media etc.
in the US, kim kardashian xan make it big...fking even james corden, a man with zero talent has a big place in the US..
and Wilder couldn't?

This point btw, has nothing to do with matchroom and aj. the fact that i point out to wilder's issues here doesnt mean you should attack aj/eddie hearn.

[Inspired]

KnickTillDeaTh
you cannot discredit Eddie Hearn. He has worked with promoters and boxers all around the world and they all say good things..except the ones who are his competition who controlled the market before him. Eg arum and frank warren, schaeffer...and i guess without it being public, al haymon.

[The plunger man]

[QUOTE=KnickTillDeaTh;20259911]

Pretty big number for AJ, however as I always do, I'll wait for a second source before I believe that number, but it's not far off the 60 million pound estimate so I can definitely see that. But let's be real, the Saudis throw a lot of money around and AJ took advantage of that, but that does not constitute the "regular" money in boxing. When we talk about the economy of boxing, Saudi Arabia is a place that will throw money at singular fighters, way above market value, just to draw them. However, the U.S. still reins supreme, as indicated by the very same article you linked

"Yet richer pickings await AJ in a fight against Deontay Wilder or Tyson Fury next year for the undisputed world heavyweight title,"....

Those fights will not be in Saudi Arabia, and AJ is expected to make more money, why? Because it'll bring in the U.S. audience. By the way this ain't Schit talking or flag waiving, I'm Puerto Rican. It just is what it is.

Thanks for the link.

respected mate but my point is for the right amount of money any fight can happen around the world , for example Ali vs foreman was in Africa and Frazier in Manila....super fights happen around the world.
I think if the fight with Joshua and wilder does take place there is quite a good chance again it happens on neutral ground for a mega purse and it can happen again in the Middle East.
Joshua will not earn that much in the states and wilder will likely get a hefty purse as well plus there is then no A or B side to wrangle over.
I think it’s more to do with the promotion side not wanting to take second stage.
Best outcome is to have it on neutral ground and both Earn the same purse with the winner getting a fight bonus.
I just want to see the fight