Why do some fighters get credit for taking 'risks'?

[Thuglife Nelo]

Alvarez began his career as a teen and grew into a MW.
How does he get credit for that?

Easy because Pacboys like you say ''but Pac started at Flyweight as a teen...and nobody ever dun dis...''

[moochi]

If Alvarez really wanted to impress at a higher weight, why not fight a riskier, more competitive fighter?

Canelo is a business man and he doesn't give a frack about ppl on a forum and the non-mexican boxing fans...as a matter of a fact, he doesn't care about boxing fans at all as most of them (non-bias) don't rate him above anything but being a very good fighter.

he cares about business and casuals.. boxing is a business disguised as a sport remember!

[Thuglife Nelo]

Alvarez began his career as a teen and grew into a MW.
How does he get credit for that?
From 160, he moved up to a CW 164 vs Chavez Jr. and to 168 vs Rocky Fielding.
Lots of fans were impressed by this but the smart money knew he was heavily favored to win both fights.
Personally, I think the more challenging fights were at MW.
If Alvarez really wanted to impress at a higher weight, why not fight a riskier, more competitive fighter?

I like how Pact@rds whom jumped on the GGG train to now in Post-Pac phaze still trolling their saltiness that Alvarez ****** up GGG.

Thread Title: Pac's wins over Cotto and Mosley were way more impressive than Alvarez's

Alvarez has victories over Cotto and Mosley but Pac's wins were beatdowns. Manny had Cotto down a few times before they mercifully stopped the fight in the 12th.
After Pac put down Shane hard in the 3rd, Mosley gave a clinic on how a veteran fighter manages to survive to hear the bell for the 12th round.
It just seems that a younger, bigger Alvarez should have done as least as good as Manny.

[GhostofDempsey]

Some of the most highly praised fighters were risk averse. Floyd, Hopkins, Rigo, Ward, RJJ, all sought after low-risk/high-reward fights by hyping up their opponents or catching a big name when they were not at their best. Wilder, Tank, Santa Cruz, the Charlos, follow a similar blueprint. I give Canelo a little more credit for taking on Floyd while he was young and weight drained, and he finally stepped up against GGG 2x, Jacobs and now Kovalev. Until he rematches GGG while he still has something left in the tank, I'll still criticize him for having unfinished business at 160.

We all know corruption exists. Referees who control the action in favor of one fighter, judges who continue to baffle boxing with outrageous scorecards, shady promoters disguised as managers, etc. That's why we have to appreciate true warriors who continue to challenge themselves and prove themselves over and over. Pac, Loma, Usyk, Gvozdyk, Porter, and even Broner have taken risks during their careers and continue to step up against tougher challenges.

[#1Assassin]

i don't agree with the basic premise of the thread.

i dont think canelo or floyd know they have the judges with them. canelo maybe can hope to have some extra pull, but you never know. and floyd hasnt had the judges on his side over the course of his career. the only fight where anyone has ever said he got the judges favor undeserved is castillo I. but in their rematch floyd won by a landslide only for the judges to score it really close. so he actually would have been robbed himself had he not outclassed castillo completely.

to say they know people cant hurt them is nonsense as well. in fact canelo knew lara very much could hurt him, trust me he could. even trout could cut him bad, break his nose etc and somehow get a a stoppage. this is pro boxing at the highest level.

fighting lara was a huge risk for canelo, a crazy one to take given his potential star power at the time and that he was just coming of a loss.

[The Big Dunn]

I know Canelo and Floyd fans may take offense from this thread..but it is not my intent to rile them up...they are just the most recent examples of being the A-side/examples of my point here...I think they are both great boxers and never saw Floyd get worked over in the ring for a whole fight...and Canelo has always impressed me every time I have seen him fight.

But when you are a fighter...and you basically control one of the greatest risks you can have in a fight...which is that the judging will basically always favor you...how can that guy really get credit for taking big risks?

Like when Nelo fought Lara or Trout...yeah he stepped up I guess...but he also knows those guys can't hurt/KO him, and that he would be reasonably competitive with them and would always get the cards in that case...in a way it is like no risk.

Could say the same for him with the Jacobs fight...Cotto...GGG 1 I give him credit for taking the fight, but to be fair he didn't really come to fight that night, and tried to mimic the Jacobs gameplan which won Danny a few rounds...Nelo/his team probably knew that if he did similar there he could at worst get a draw etc on a couple cards.

For Floyd - I mean in his Money May days he knew that if he went 12 rounds with anyone he was getting the win in Vegas...he knew which guys would possibly give him trouble (I think) and also knew (from sparring/stories etc) who he could at worst go 12 with and in that case again he is getting a W.

Taking 'risks' is taking on a guy in his hometown/neutral...like Spence did with Brook, or like some of the Eastern Euros have done lately...taking on a guy on neutral/away terms is a real risk...taking them on, on your terms, is good business, don't get me wrong...but it isn't really taking a risk, when you know you will at worst be pretty competitive and then the cards will be in your favor.

I just have never really understood the logic that those guys were really taking risks...again, they have made good money decisions, and what is more important than that...but real risks are what Ali did facing George Foreman in Zaire...stuff like that is why many consider him the greatest, even though he had some blemishes.

I will say that Canelo going up to 175 to face Kov is a bit of a risk imo...but again, similar to the first GGG fight...if he knows that he can go 12 rounds with Kov, then how big of a risk is it really? He will probably get a good decision in that case, so where is the risk.

Not to get on him for that fight...because I do think it is a good fight and I applaud him for going up and taking it...but those fights become easier to take when you know you control the scoring.

You make some good points. I think the answer lies in the fact you can't compare the "cash cow" to non cash cows and you have to look at where the sport is.

With respect to hometown/neutral site-you are going to fight where the most money can be made. for example, ODH from his 19th fight on fought only 6 times outside of Vegas at a time when boxing was big in a number of places. That is because that is where the most money was generated.

with respect to Floyd and Canelo, I don't think they are going to fight outside of Vegas, Texas or Cali because the revenue would drop. I get your point, but I think if you ask the opponent and their team, they want the fight to be held where they can maximize resources.

I don't know that "home field" in boxing is the same as in other sports. A fighter doesn't get better if he fights in a different location. It's not like say football where there is a weather element or baseball where the field dimensions are different.

The eastern euros come here because the big money is here. They aren't taking risks as much as they are going where the money is. If the money was in europe, like it is for soccer, Americans would be going there.

To your point about ALi-that wasn't risk taking that was done for financial gain. If you remember, Zaire's president, guaranteed a huge sum of money so long as the fight took place in his country. The ref and judges would've been the same had the fight taken place in Zaire or New York. Tyson going to Japan for Buster was the same thing-Tyson was going to be a 40-1 favorite wherever the fight was held.

Good thread. WOuld love to keep discussing with you.

[Tony Trick-Pony]

You're all over the place with this! First of all, ALL PROFESSIONAL fighters worldwide aren't going to even question Floyd or Canelo's selling power for A-Side location. To acknowledge the purses means you must acknowledge the venues that provide those bags. You know this.

Also, Floyd and Canelo are types in the American continent that have financial backing because of their fans. Glowacki, Huck, underdogs so it makes sense to host those fights in their countries. Gassiev was 50/50, and the WBSS knew how to properly bank on the location. Or would you have preferred the Ukraine or a neutral location for the Gassiev unification?

And Bellew vs Usyk was a joke. Usyk carried Bellew in that fight. If Adonis and Makabu, all Southpaws, could rattle Bellew - whose kryptonite is a straight left - you think he'd stand a chance against an Olympian like Usyk? stop...

This has nothing to do with discrediting Usyk, Canelo or Floyd because they've all done their parts moving up in weights it seems this conversation is pointless unless you want to talk about my real point in 154-168... but yeah, you didn't touch on that at all from the TS's point...

Not unusual from the once upon a time GGG purists. Yes we know, those years were a waste of time and Loeffler stole minds from that period. what a shame. was never suckered by any of that stuff

I think you live on a different planet.

Never once did I bring up GGG or the 154-168 thing and I didn't think the TS did either. Maybe this is all in your head? We know you spend too much time on here. Take a break. Drink some Turkish coffee. Holler at a lady or two. You're losing it, man.

[Citizen Koba]

Yeah, the A-side crap is well, crap.

Usyk is a great example of recent risk-taking. Usyk unified at cruiser but he beat Glowacki, Huck, Bredis, Gassiev and Bellew all in their own backyards. That is one hell of a damn run. Considering that one was a former king of the division and three were unbeaten and Bellew was a solid pro with lots of world class experience, I think that's true risk-taking.

Canelo and Floyd both took on risky fights but like you say, they had an ace in the hole every time. Is it smart? Sure. But a bit dull? Yes.

I think there are plenty of guys who risk and honestly don't give a damn. They sometimes don't get the benefit of the doubt with the judges but oh well. They move on. A loss doesn't shatter everybody's self-confidence. Not everyone cries when they lose their "0". As they shouldn't. Most guys don't get to be that interesting until they have a loss. Then they actually learn that everything won't be served on a silver platter for them. Thank God for losses.

Anyway, when it comes down to it, I agree. When you have certain advantages, the risk factor goes way down. Usyk deserves praise in this area. Canelo and Floyd not so much.

I'm also wondering whether a guy with a coupla $100 mil in the bank and a cast iron guarantee of future fights and wealth - win or lose - really calculates risk in the same way as a guy whose financial security in and after boxing is more dependent on keeping a 0 in the L column and a high K0 %.

[TonyGe]

The best part is people eating the TS’s bait. This guys is always parading the GGG vs Canelo series debate about who won and is always hating on Canelo.

The irony is his thread title and 154-168 is easy. It is the same mentality of years for GGG fanboys saying “but why does he hate to move up?!” People don’t even realize how much bigger GGG is compared to Hagler. Canelo moves anywhere above 160 and it’s all “cherry picking,” and any criticism towards GGG for years and there was always shared cliche excuses from fans being rinsed without them really thinking and pretending to know the sport!

And you think Bellew was good or that Usyk took a risk with him? Cmon dude...

Dude in those days most Middleweights were generally smaller than present day Middleweights. In fact there are plenty of SW bigger than Hagler.

Marvin Hagler
Height
5 ft 9 1⁄2 in (177 cm)[1]
Reach
75 in (191 cm)[1]

Andrade
Height
6 ft 1 in (185 cm)
Reach
73 1⁄2 in (187 cm)

Jermall Charlo
Height
6 ft 0 in (183 cm)[1]
Reach
73 1⁄2 in (187 cm)[1]

Jermell Charlo
Height
5 ft 11 in (180 cm)[1]
Reach
73 in (185 cm)[1]

Jarret Hurd
Height
5 ft 11 in (180 cm)[1]
Reach
78 in (198 cm)[1]

Gennady Golovkin
Height
5 ft 10 1⁄2 in (179 cm)
Reach
178 cm (70 in)

[Tony Trick-Pony]

I'm also wondering whether a guy with a coupla $100 mil in the bank and a cast iron guarantee of future fights and wealth - win or lose - really calculates risk in the same way as a guy whose financial security in and after boxing is more dependent on keeping a 0 in the L column and a high K0 %.

Haha. Very good point, sir.