Why is no on giving ggg credit for still being a top mw at 37?

[buddyr]

Because this forum is full of racists who can't stand a fact that foreign Asian boxer became a star in USA, they will hate great boxer like Golovkin only because he's not one of them.

Do u actually know what racism is? Or are you one of those people that say, “black people don’t like my favorite fighters so they are racists”? Are you also one of those people that call ******* a race?

[elfag]

Steve Rolls and a gift over 14 fight Derevyanchenko in 2019 and hes "one of the top middleweights"

top middleweight my ass. His record this year is abysmal.

[chirorickyp]

In any other sport an athlete that competes at the highest level we give them praise. In soccer no one talks about who's better prime for prime. We always mention how good a players is over several years of his career. Consistency matters. Roy jones jr at 35 was getting koed cold by journeyman. Leonard was done late 30's. Ggg after being ducked for 10 years still competes at the highest level at 37. It's extremely rare for a fighter who's had several amateur fights to still compete as a top pro at 37.

You guys can say i'm making excuses but facts are facts. The all time greats get a pass for losing to bums but ggg at 37 still has to ko everyone, can't have tough fights and he's been exposed? LET ME GUESS. GGG AT 40 IS STILL IN HIS PRIME RIGHT? Wtf is that?

Great point especially with the Leonard and Jones examples.

[Larry the boss]

same reason you didnt give floyd credit for being undefeated, unified champ and p4p #1 at 38

[_original_]

Golovkin fought soft touches for so long, and used those soft touches to build his hype up.

Daniel Geale was having issues with still making the weight, but his feather-fisted ass was still boxing Golovkin up, almost at will. 154lb Gabriel Rosado was holding his own, boxing/moving, until his skin failed him as usual. Could add Ouma to the mix too.

Golovkin fights Kell Brook (when he was top 3 at 147lbs), and Brook boxes him 50/50 until the eye socket went. Then he fights Daniel Jacobs (after Jacobs gets over the nerves) and almost loses that fight (preference is whatever, but I believe I scored it 7-5 Jacobs). And then he takes on "155lb king" Alvarez, basically losing both fights.

And now, he steps in with Derevyanchenko (decorated amateur, I think 20-1 in WSOB, fast-tracked as a pro, basically boxed Jacobs 50/50) and puts on a performance that reads like he **** the bed and got beat in a close fight.

When faced with guys who could actually fight (and outside of Alvarez, none of the names seem HOF bound, tbh), Golovkin has found himself barely hanging on or getting beat.

Usually with the same struggles; front foot heavy, issues with the offense/defense transition, can't really fight going backwards, etc.

And that's when the careful matchmaking becomes clear.

Now, word apparently is that Golovkin was ill for the fight; still, if lines were laid out today for fights against Canelo, Saunders, Andrade, Charlo, and Derevyanchenko, it wouldn't shock me, and shouldn't shock most folks tbh, if Golovkin was the underdog in all 5 of those fights.

He's showing his level now; maybe time has taken a bit from him, but he's a top 10 middleweight who likely would've always had real issues with guys who can fight with some dimensions to them.

Good post. Agree with everything except I had Golovkin winning close against Alvarez. He's struggled immensely though once he's faced high level guys. Just a very good fighter, not a great that can clearly separate himself from good competition (could argue Canelo is the same as well).

[Boxing_1013]

Golovkin fought soft touches for so long, and used those soft touches to build his hype up.

Daniel Geale was having issues with still making the weight, but his feather-fisted ass was still boxing Golovkin up, almost at will. 154lb Gabriel Rosado was holding his own, boxing/moving, until his skin failed him as usual. Could add Ouma to the mix too.

Golovkin fights Kell Brook (when he was top 3 at 147lbs), and Brook boxes him 50/50 until the eye socket went. Then he fights Daniel Jacobs (after Jacobs gets over the nerves) and almost loses that fight (preference is whatever, but I believe I scored it 7-5 Jacobs). And then he takes on "155lb king" Alvarez, basically losing both fights.

And now, he steps in with Derevyanchenko (decorated amateur, I think 20-1 in WSOB, fast-tracked as a pro, basically boxed Jacobs 50/50) and puts on a performance that reads like he **** the bed and got beat in a close fight.

When faced with guys who could actually fight (and outside of Alvarez, none of the names seem HOF bound, tbh), Golovkin has found himself barely hanging on or getting beat.

Usually with the same struggles; front foot heavy, issues with the offense/defense transition, can't really fight going backwards, etc.

And that's when the careful matchmaking becomes clear.

Now, word apparently is that Golovkin was ill for the fight; still, if lines were laid out today for fights against Canelo, Saunders, Andrade, Charlo, and Derevyanchenko, it wouldn't shock me, and shouldn't shock most folks tbh, if Golovkin was the underdog in all 5 of those fights.

He's showing his level now; maybe time has taken a bit from him, but he's a top 10 middleweight who likely would've always had real issues with guys who can fight with some dimensions to them.

Respectfully I disagree...GGG's run at MW puts him up there with any other at MW all-time imo...Ouma for me was the only other guy who really ever gave GGG a tough 50/50 fight...walking through about 15 quality fighters is very impressive...most ATGs have a slip up or two in runs against that level opposition.

And I felt Jacobs and the 2 Nelo fights were straightforward 8-4 Ws for GGG...I did feel SD was the better man vs GGG, but still scored 6 rounds for GGG...but that GGG is pretty clearly not very close to the best version of himself that we've seen.

I just think people are glamorizing past greats a bit by over-stating their accolades relative to GGG...if GGG wasn't that great imo then Stevens would have knocked him down, or Lemieux...Rubio or Rosado or Geale or Macklin would have last 12 rounds...Murray would have gone 12 in a 8-4 type fight...Monroe would have fought GGG to a close fight in 12 rounds.

But none of those things happened...rolling through all of those quality opponents is just very impressive to me, especially when compared to the runs of past greats in any era...I just think the over-the-top slighting of GGG vs the propping up of past greats, who had worse defeats and not really any better/more victories, is a little off imo.

[Boxing_1013]

Do u actually know what racism is? Or are you one of those people that say, “black people don’t like my favorite fighters so they are racists”? Are you also one of those people that call ******* a race?

***s are their own race...just ask them...when convenient they are either ***ish or white

[Scipio2009]

Good post. Agree with everything except I had Golovkin winning close against Alvarez. He's struggled immensely though once he's faced high level guys. Just a very good fighter, not a great that can clearly separate himself from good competition (could argue Canelo is the same as well).

Style preference is likely where we share different, tbh.

The one thing I'd point out though; is that Canelo basically knows what he is, works at his craft, and you see him continuing to get better with every performance.

You watch Canelo fight, and you see a lot of James Toney, a lot of Julio Cesar Chavez, a lot of Joe Louis etc; not the fastest feet, but rarely out of position, great off the counter, can punch with both hands to the head and body, has been schooled enough to set leading traps, and has the tank to push you a hard 10 rounds at a rough pace (interested in seeing what he looks like against Kovalev, as I have a hunch that the stamina issues will vanish once he chooses to just settle in and fight out his run at 168lbs).

Certain styles that gave him issues early in his career (Floyd, Trout, Lara) have given him far less issues as he's seen them in live action and worked at it.

And that's kind of what's sad about Golovkin's run; you look at the stuff that he was doing under Universum in Germany, and though he wasn't Pirog, he looked pretty darn fluid and maybe special.

You put him with Pedro Diaz, or Jeff Mayweather, or Buddy McGirt, or German Caicedo (Luis Ortiz's trainer), who knows what that German style would've evolved to.

[Scipio2009]

Respectfully I disagree...GGG's run at MW puts him up there with any other at MW all-time imo...Ouma for me was the only other guy who really ever gave GGG a tough 50/50 fight...walking through about 15 quality fighters is very impressive...most ATGs have a slip up or two in runs against that level opposition.

And I felt Jacobs and the 2 Nelo fights were straightforward 8-4 Ws for GGG...I did feel SD was the better man vs GGG, but still scored 6 rounds for GGG...but that GGG is pretty clearly not very close to the best version of himself that we've seen.

I just think people are glamorizing past greats a bit by over-stating their accolades relative to GGG...if GGG wasn't that great imo then Stevens would have knocked him down, or Lemieux...Rubio or Rosado or Geale or Macklin would have last 12 rounds...Murray would have gone 12 in a 8-4 type fight...Monroe would have fought GGG to a close fight in 12 rounds.

But none of those things happened...rolling through all of those quality opponents is just very impressive to me, especially when compared to the runs of past greats in any era...I just think the over-the-top slighting of GGG vs the propping up of past greats, who had worse defeats and not really any better/more victories, is a little off imo.

Golovkin has fought 42 times as a professional; meaning not too much disrespect to fighters stepping into the ring and putting their lives on the line, you may be able to count 8 of those fights as being true fights with any doubt when signed (Ouma as the first real trial horse, Rosado coming up from 154lbs, Geale, Murray as another trial horse, Brook coming up from 147lbs, Daniel Jacobs, Alvarez1, Alvarez2, and Derevyanchenko).

The fact that you're trying to elevate Curtis Stevens, a fighter arguably without a meaningful win over the course of his career is a bit much.

Not every fight is going to be a killer fight, but you judge middleweights by the real ones that they stepped in with.

Golovkin has been found lacking

[satiev1]

same reason you didnt give floyd credit for being undefeated, unified champ and p4p #1 at 38

not true. I do. Floyd is atg and onr of the best of our era.